Weak front suspension most likely!

 

Hey everybody!

I have been experiencing a rather unsettling issue with my Scout, The worst incident happening today.

I was taking an on-ramp to the highway which was straight (fortunately) and there is a rough patch of asphalt left from a poor attempt to fill a pot hole. As soon as I hit the patch, I got fairly severe front end wobble, the wheel shaking side to side a good 5-6 times before I regained control. The rough spot is not that bad, I wouldn’t thing twice if I was on 4 wheels. It has happened before, as well, after hitting a ridge or rough spot at moderate speed.

I have heard nothing but bad things from the stock tires, and it is most likely the culprit but I want to see if anyone else has had this issue before dropping $500 (Canadian) on a set of Mich. Commander IIs
The tire pressure is currently set to the recommended PSI.

I am also wondering if a steering damper is a reasonable fix? but it seems odd to have to do that to a new bike no?

Thanks for your help and feedback. Hopefully I can find a resolution before I find out how much worse this can get!

Hi theftazerlife, I agree with Ronnie in that it's not your Kenda tyres in this instance but your front suspension. I know because I had similar happenings with my own Scout. On a number of ocassions my steering swung to the left after hitting rough road surfaces. Very scary, in fact. The suspension would also dive badly under braking and would oscillate or rebound through corners which was also a very un-nerving experience. All signs of front springs that were or are not up to scratch. Both Ronnie and I ( at the time ) were helped out by a guy in Australia who is a suspension guru. We followed his advise and now, along with many others have Scouts with excellent suspensions, front and rear. I suggest you PM @DarkScout and have a chat to him. He will put you right. I am that confident that I am planning to offer my Scout to any other Scout owner in Burtland to test ride to prove that the "DS" suspension system really works as good as people say it does. And it does not cost the earth. Darkscout ships anywhere. I recently heard of some very happy customers in the U K. So, give him a PM. You have nothing to lose other than the skin off your tapping finger, cos, I bet, like me, you only use the one!
Alpal

 

Hey everybody!

I have been experiencing a rather unsettling issue with my Scout, The worst incident happening today.

I was taking an on-ramp to the highway which was straight (fortunately) and there is a rough patch of asphalt left from a poor attempt to fill a pot hole. As soon as I hit the patch, I got fairly severe front end wobble, the wheel shaking side to side a good 5-6 times before I regained control. The rough spot is not that bad, I wouldn’t thing twice if I was on 4 wheels. It has happened before, as well, after hitting a ridge or rough spot at moderate speed.

I have heard nothing but bad things from the stock tires, and it is most likely the culprit but I want to see if anyone else has had this issue before dropping $500 (Canadian) on a set of Mich. Commander IIs
The tire pressure is currently set to the recommended PSI.

I am also wondering if a steering damper is a reasonable fix? but it seems odd to have to do that to a new bike no?

Thanks for your help and feedback. Hopefully I can find a resolution before I find out how much worse this can get!

Before doing anything else, check your tire pressure. Seems obvious but a top-off of 2lbs stopped my wobble.

 

I will take an accurate reading and see where it is at - still wondering if better tires will be more forgiving to a slight pressure change however. Thanks

 

I had this consistently on my Scout, was always checking tire pressure as well, thought it was just me being new to riding. I imagine RBinTex is correct.
Have a Springfield now and so many things that scared me on the Scout are gone, I know I have a lot to learn, but I just couldn't believe the difference between the two.

 

I'm worried about the cost of new tires or a fork upgrade, I think buying a Springfield is a drastic resolution Nice to know you experience it as well. Did the scout have stock tired, suspension?

 

Might be your suspension, but check you tire pressure. I notice mine wobbled when my tire pressure was low.

 

Love my FOBO tire pressure sensors that allow instant tire pressure checks on your phone. Nice peace of mind.

 

I agree. FOBO is so nice.

 

Dark Scout to the rescue! My Scout use to wallow now it feels planted. The difference is amazing.

 

What did you do to change the ride?

 

I've seen some bikers and bikes do some wild things.
Good luck.

 

I've seen some bikers and bikes do some wild things.
Good luck.

View attachment 48816

That you Roll On?,.....
Alpal

 

HEY, Alpal! What's up!

I'd like to say yes, it's me.
I thought I'd ride across this here pond, and pay a visit or two.
Man, this Chieftain handles GREAT through all theses here back roads.
But, we both know different.

 

Hey!
I saw just a few hours ago, this here video on the Shriners adding Indians to there group. This one is out of Illinois.

You folks on a hourly time? Or is there some kind of metric clock you have there?

 

Hey!
I saw just a few hours ago, this here video on the Shriners adding Indians to there group. This one is out of Illinois. You folks on a hourly time? Or is there some kind of metric clock you have there?

I was in the Libertyville dealership this past winter when they were designing the rear crash bars. The bars go a little wider, and lower to protect the bags if bike scrapes the road. The guys who have dropped bikes know the Polaris rear crash bars come up a little short, and damage the lower edge of the bag. With that said the Polaris bars are smaller, and less bulky. They seem to do a decent job. The crash bars designed for the Shriners are huge, but functional.

I'm sure the folks at Libertyville could make you the bars with the shape you describe. I saw the bars on Shriner bikes before they were chromed. Functional, but big.

When I get a RM I'll want those bars.

 

I was in the Libertyville dealership this past winter when they were designing the rear crash bars. The bars go a little wider, and lower to protect the bags if bike scrapes the road. The guys who have dropped bikes know the Polaris rear crash bars come up a little short, and damage the lower edge of the bag. With that said the Polaris bars are smaller, and less bulky. They seem to do a decent job. The crash bars designed for the Shriners are huge, but functional.

 

That was one of things that one brother said about the bags.
Meaning, an't you concerned about the bags?
I showed him where mine were scrapped on the bars, one by the bag the other up by the engine, he felt along the bag and no roughness.
This is what happened when I tipped over, just these two spots.

Maybe they or someone could make a set more teardrop shaped?
I guess anything is possible. I said. But, this is what happened to me, so now you know.

 

I'm sure the folks at Libertyville could make you the bars with the shape you describe. I saw the bars on Shriner bikes before they were chromed. Functional, but big.

 

Hey everybody!

I have been experiencing a rather unsettling issue with my Scout, The worst incident happening today.

I was taking an on-ramp to the highway which was straight (fortunately) and there is a rough patch of asphalt left from a poor attempt to fill a pot hole. As soon as I hit the patch, I got fairly severe front end wobble, the wheel shaking side to side a good 5-6 times before I regained control. The rough spot is not that bad, I wouldn’t thing twice if I was on 4 wheels. It has happened before, as well, after hitting a ridge or rough spot at moderate speed.

I have heard nothing but bad things from the stock tires, and it is most likely the culprit but I want to see if anyone else has had this issue before dropping $500 (Canadian) on a set of Mich. Commander IIs
The tire pressure is currently set to the recommended PSI.

I am also wondering if a steering damper is a reasonable fix? but it seems odd to have to do that to a new bike no?

Thanks for your help and feedback. Hopefully I can find a resolution before I find out how much worse this can get!

Before this thread get hijacked into a crash bar discussion, your issue is almost certainly suspension rather than tires. Edmonton has horrible roads, but where I really noticed front end wobble on my scout want in the Rockies, specifically on highway 3 and through Crowsnest Pass. The front and rear suspension simply can't keep up with a full size rider, and it's even worse with a passenger. I was on my way to Vancouver Island with the wife on the back, and anytime I got above 100kph and we rounded even a slight bend I'd get a front tire/triple tree wiggle. The scout (unfortunately) is made to look good and ride... okay. And that means that scout owners who want performance either trade up to larger Indians, upgrade their bikes, or quit the brand.

I love my scout, but it has taken and will continue to take a lot of money to make it into the bike.I want it to be.

 

Start with upgrading the suspension and you will think you own a totally different bike, well, actually you will. the difference is that noticeable.
Alpal

 

Also have your rear tire alignment with the front tire checked. If it is not aligned properly, this might be the solution to the front end wobble. Mine was way off when I picked my new Scout up from the dealership after they went through the new bike setup procedure by nearly a 1/4". Felt it all the way home.

 

Hey everybody!

I have been experiencing a rather unsettling issue with my Scout, The worst incident happening today.

I was taking an on-ramp to the highway which was straight (fortunately) and there is a rough patch of asphalt left from a poor attempt to fill a pot hole. As soon as I hit the patch, I got fairly severe front end wobble, the wheel shaking side to side a good 5-6 times before I regained control. The rough spot is not that bad, I wouldn’t thing twice if I was on 4 wheels. It has happened before, as well, after hitting a ridge or rough spot at moderate speed.

I have heard nothing but bad things from the stock tires, and it is most likely the culprit but I want to see if anyone else has had this issue before dropping $500 (Canadian) on a set of Mich. Commander IIs
The tire pressure is currently set to the recommended PSI.

I am also wondering if a steering damper is a reasonable fix? but it seems odd to have to do that to a new bike no?

Thanks for your help and feedback. Hopefully I can find a resolution before I find out how much worse this can get!

Crazy thought, but have you considered the possibility that it's because the Scout is a motorcycle?

Sorry to be so blunt, but it seems that ever since someone posted their critiques on the Kenda's in wet weather they are blamed for everything. You're always going to have movement on strange surfaces on any motorcycle with any tire setup - take steel-grate bridges for example. I was also on a road the other day that was being resurfaced - the road looked like tank treads had gone over the road while it was still soft. For miles the bike listed from side to side. It wouldn't have mattered what bike or tire setup I was on; it's physics, plain and simple.

For the record, I've never had a single issue with my stock tires. I bought the bike in March, so it has seen over 2800 miles of everything from 32 degrees to 90; rain to sunshine with no issues. Just trying to save you some coin. I, personally, am not going to bother switching from the Kendas until I need new tires only because there are better options, but probably not the cause of your wobble given your description.

 

Interesting reply! You mean two tires are less stable than 4? Golly!

My issue was not with traction or listing, It is violent front wheel shake when hitting a rough (but not particularly bad) patch of road. An issue that brought me closer than ever to loosing control. Something I was to try and prevent as much as possible, especially if it is due to inferior parts.

I hope Kenda appreciates your unwavering support!

 

I would like to agree but there may be something going on with this issue that I would like to understand. My wife's 60 has done it and she's had six motorcycles, she weighs around 150lbs. I have a 69 and weigh at least 50 lbs. more and it hasn't done it. Both are completely stock. Now I've had 45 motorcycles and I use to have an issue years ago and I would just tighten the steering dampener and it would go away. So for my wife's sake I'm all ears to hearing what the problem might be. I mean, besides it's just a motorcycle and that they just drive differently then a car.

 

I will keep you in touch! I'm going to hash it out with the dealer but probably upgrade to a progressive spring and slightly heavier oil to control the rebound of the fork. If That is not the answer, New rubber will be next. The tires really don't offer a pile of confidence and take way more work to stay planted then it should in my opinion, but then again, that could be resolved with the fork.

Let the adventure begin!

 

First. Check the free stuff.
Check fork tube aligninment in triple trees.. one not lower/higher than other.
Check rear tire alignment.. use a measuring device, to the side of tire, to swing arm. On both sides. Dont rely on hash marks.
Air pressure you did that.
Check that rear suspension isnt to soft for you.. pulling weight off the front at speed, helps cause wobble..
Than, if you find nothing. Call your dealer.. 90% of the time its a set up issue.. then, like all others said.. suspension.... Tires.... I do not have this.. but, I set my bike up, so I know its right.. it was not set right from dealer..

 

First. Check the free stuff.
Check fork tube aligninment in triple trees.. one not lower/higher than other.
Check rear tire alignment.. use a measuring device, to the side of tire, to swing arm. On both sides. Dont rely on hash marks.
Air pressure you did that.
Check that rear suspension isnt to soft for you.. pulling weight off the front at speed, helps cause wobble..
Than, if you find nothing. Call your dealer.. 90% of the time its a set up issue.. then, like all others said.. suspension.... Tires.... I do not have this.. but, I set my bike up, so I know its right.. it was not set right from dealer..

Thanks for the check list! Hatt


I checked the fork alignment which was interesting. The right side top cap is sitting about 2mm higher than the left side, but the stanchion measurement from the lower brace to the top of the dust deal was 2mm longer on the left side. I dropped the right stanchion down so they are now equal to a 0.05mm variance which should be just fine but just looking at the top caps, they appear to be off. Bad for my OCD.

rear tire alignment check is not easy! With the belt & cover on one side and the exhaust and fender on the other, it is very difficult to get a precise measurement at equal points with a Vernier caliper. Mind you, I am also doing this in the parking lot at work which is not ideal. Got any tips?

Tires were checked this morning (with a precision gauge, not the shop gauge last used) and found to be 4psi lower in the front. They are now both exactly 40psi.

Rear suspension is dialled in and a little on the firm side, but within the sag range for my weight.

Fingers crossed, I don’t have it happen again, I am not going to be heading for the first patch of crap road to find out however. I have never liked the squishy front end so my sights are on new internals now anyway. Looking at both the traxxion damper/spring kits for $999usd or the Ikon springs ($150usd?) and new oil which is considerable less money. Maybe I will start a new thread and pro/con debate on the options.

 

Why aren't the Scout 60 owners complaining about this?

 

I have a scout sixty!

 

Thanks for clarifying. I missed it! So - the entire Scout line through 2016 is victim of this substandard suspension system?

 

Yes and no Stovepipe, as there are a number of Scout riders out there that state there is nothing wrong with their suspensions. One thing that could explain it, as alluded to by @RBinTEX is that they are all very light people and thus the suspension can cope with them. What we need is for a few of the " no, my suspension is fine" fratunity to tune in with their thoughts and, yes, how much they weigh. For example, the front strut springs on the Scout have been tested and the numbers back pointed to them being capable of carrying a biker weighing between 35 and 50 kgs. I personally don't know of anyone that light and who also holds a legal drivers licence. So, thoughts anyone?
Alpal

 

I'm not much over 150 pounds - at 165 and can most definitely see and feel - especially up front is too mellow for a compliant ride. Looks like this winter I'm in for an upgrade to DarkScout. Hope the parts will still be available then.

 

A lightweight like me! I am 143 pounds wearing nothing but a smile,....I can prove it,.....pics anyone?,....no?,......oh, ok,.......

 

Thanks for that! The fork is definitely way too soft, and I have contacted Indian as to why a bike would come with a front suspension set-up so light from the factory. It should be set for an average rider with the option to decrease or increase rates depending on your specific requirements. The decent after market options will set be back a considerable amount of money from what I can tell.

I don't believe upgrading to higher capacity fork springs ($130 US + install ) is a hefty price to pay to customize a generic bike to your weight , size and riding ability. The Indian 60/69 are entry level bikes - not stock spec'd for a variance of rider weights or riding two up. The problem I see is not Scouts starter specs but the dealer network telling people it can be used two up and /or not up selling modifications to match their clients requirements(weight,etc). If I was told of these options before picking up the bike - i am sure I would upgraded the front suspension springs and/or the tires for a better ride.

All that said - I ride my wife's Scout from time to time - I am 220 lbs - she is 150 lbs. Riding with a recurved wind screen - the only issue i notice with stability is around 130-150 km/hr (80-90 miles per hr) in high front/cross winds. and that is comparing with the ride of my Chief at the same speed.

After doing 8000 km on the Kendra I just upgraded her Scout with Pirelli Night Dragons - they are another option along with the Michelin.

 

I'm considering installing an upgrade to the fork springs soon and letting the rear shocks wait until later. For only $130.00 it seems more tan worthwhile.

 

There are a few kits for the front forks available and I'm gonna listen to what the experience of Scout owners are going to suggest.

1. Progressive Springs like this: From Xchoppers for $87.30
Progressive Suspension Indian Scout & Scout 60 Fork Spring Kit

or

2. Straight-rate Fork Springs that are supposedly customized to our weight like this: From Traxxion for $99.95
Fork Spring Kit by Traxxion Dynamics

What is the best for this bike?

 

There are a few kits for the front forks available and I'm gonna listen to what the experience of Scout owners are going to suggest.

1. Progressive Springs like this: From Xchoppers for $87.30
Progressive Suspension Indian Scout & Scout 60 Fork Spring Kit

or

2. Straight-rate Fork Springs that are supposedly customized to our weight like this: From Traxxion for $99.95
Fork Spring Kit by Traxxion Dynamics

What is the best for this bike?

Straight is better ONLY if you can play with the internal valving of the forks inerds... They rely heavily on perfectly dialed in valing properties..
Progressive springs were created to alleviate that tediousness.. if you have no desire, or ability to go throught all that, then the progressive is the better option.

 

Progressive sounds like more sense for someone who doesn't want to mess with it. That's me.

Alpal. A fellow lightweight. I'll bet your not wet behind the ears though. Ha.

 

Heres some piece of mind for ya.
Admittedly, I demand alot from my bikes. That said, I have dark scouts calibration (progressive spring) in front and think its great.. I find it does a great job of doing what is needed and more for the scout.. yes, you can get emulators, cartridges, and others, for a major up tick in dollars, but, for a scout, out scout'n around, having some questionably legal fun now and a again, is money well spent..and I say this from the perspective of high demand..id also add, that when the suspension is dialed in with correct and quality pieces even from the lower price points of suspension, it is still a FAR better handling bike then any cruiser or standard style bike I've ever ridden. Again, from the perspective of high demand..

 

@Hatt
What is the big performance advantages of emulators or cartridges over just getting new progress springs for the front suspension? BTW - Great input so far.

 

@Hatt
What is the big performance advantages of emulators or cartridges over just getting new progress springs for the front suspension? BTW - Great input so far.

The short of it, they have more, and more specific oil passages that do more specific jobs. And also valves that "float"
Basically give a more "real time" movment. Such as Bound damping will tighten if hit hard so as to not bottom, but yet remain soft as warm butter for the small stuff. Works in reverse as well..