The biggest difference between the 111 and the 116 affecting power isn't the 79cc greater displacement of the 116, but that the compression ratio of the 116 is 11.0:1, while the 111's is 9.5:1.

 

Thank you for your information.
Kenny

 

111 with stage 3 cams and PV3 tune vs a 116 with stage 3 cams and PV3... how much of a HP gain with the additional 5 cubes?

Thanks
Kenny

on the 116s I have seen charts ranging from 90-104 hp,and 118-130 tq.
I would like to see a 111 with the Stage 3 cams because that is what I am running in my 111.I had the 585s and it dynoed at 102 hp,129 tq on a dynojet dyno at Indian of Charlotte a year ago.I didnt like the noise associated with the 585s,and found a deal on the Stage 3s I have now,and like them more as they pull stronger earlier.

 

Thank you for your information.
Kenny

 

If you're asking because you're trying to decide between just doing S3 cams on your 111 or pull the trigger on the BBK I'll add my two cents since I was making the same decision a couple years ago. I was on the fence for few months and then decided to just add the S3 cams and Dyno Jet Tune from Fuel Moto knowing that I could always go to the BBK in the future and sell the extra set of S3 cams later. Not much at risk other than the shop time. Obviously the full BBK delivers better trq/hp numbers, but I'd bet I got at least 75% of the gain for 25% of the cost. There are a lot of guys here that are smarter about this than I am about this subject and I'm just piggy-backing off their data but I'm glad I did it and am happy with my very noticeable results. I've also never read anyone on this forum who put in S3 cams and said they were disappointed. Hope that helps.

 

Thanks Kenny

 

I know how you feel. On my 17 I will need to upgrade springs and rods. So with that said I'm still on the fence...

 

If your talking connecting rods your stockers should be fine with a 111,and its 9.5.1 compression ratio.
The rod upgrade was needed due to the increased compression of the 116 BBK.

 

I was going to do only S3 cams plus some custom head work (since I needed new valve springs anyways). However, once the builder opened up the engine I needed new pistons and jugs so I went 116 BBK.

 

Just curious, what was wrong with your pistons and jugs? Mileage?

 

I confused Everybody Talks about Stage 2 cams , Stage 3 cams Blah Blah Blah. Stage 2 & stage 3 cams are the same part number from Indian How can they be different ? 1205417 1205418 1205419

 

It is confusing...let me explain...
111 TS engines had a cam upgrade offered by Indian referred to Stage 2. Indian also offered a 116 C.I. big bore kit (BBK) that Included more aggressive cams and those same cams are called Stage 2 for the 116 by Indian and come in a kit with a 60 mm throttlebody.and higher flow injectors. If an owner uprgraded his or her standard 116 then they would have basically the same engine as the BBK offered for the 111s.
Quite a few owners have been able to score some cams from the BBK kits (including me)and are happy with the performance gains.
Hope this helped.

 

@toma - stage 2 cams are not the same as stage 3 cams. not sure where you got that idea (your links don’t work by the way)

have a look at This forum post on the different cams/specs

 

There the same part number, So how do you order the stage 3 ?

 

One more important point on the Stage 3 Cam option; if your bike is older than 2019 you will need to upgrade the valve springs. 111s made 2019 and newer were already equipped with them. This is not an insignificant cost adder and may make the BBK option make more sense. Lots of good discussions here that go into this in detail.

 

I’ve done mods on quite a few bikes and usually was not fully satisfied till I went all the way. It’s cheaper to go to the end game on the first effort then just enjoy knowing you left nothing on the table.

 

@toma - I think you're getting wires crossed on the Stage kits specifically for 111 and specifically for 116.

The 111 Stage 2 cams are different numbers than the 111 Stage 3 cams.

Thunderstroke 111 Stage 2 cams:

Thunderstroke 111 Stage 3 cams (Big Bore Kit):

The Thunderstroke 116 (non Big Bore Kit) motor stock cams are part numbers: 1206089, 1206090, 1206091.

The Thunderstroke 116 Stage 2 kit uses the same cams as the Thunderstroke BBK for the 111 engine. Confusion rests in the instructions for the 116 Stage 2 that the cams are called "stage 3" in the text. Basically, lazy writing/editing on the part of Polaris for when they made the instruction sheet for the Thunderstroke 116 Stage 2 kit.

 

You Nailed it !!!

 

Are the specs the same regarding stock 111 and stock 116 cams? Thanks - Dan

 

They're different part numbers. Specs aren't published, and I can't find where anyone has checked the 116 stock cams. They're different part numbers from the Stage 2 111, too. I'd speculate they're very similar to the stock 111 cams, with a bit more lift. Just a WAG.

 

From what I understand, the stock 116 cams and the stage 2 111 cams are the same. The stage 2 116 cams are the same as what comes in the 116 BBK.

 

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but a few days ago I tracked down the Indian part numbers for the 111 Stage 2 cams and the 116 stock cams. They're different. Bummer, because there are very cheap 116 stock cams all over. I'm getting stage 2 cams put in on Saturday. Would've saved me a bundle if I could have used stock 116 cams.

 

I never had mine dynoed after the stg.3 cams,but when I had Lloydz 558s it put down 96 hp,and 122 ftlbs of torque,and the tq was already up to 117 at 1800 rpms-I would have saved myself a lot of dough had I just stuck with the 558s.

 

Not much difference between the 558 and stage 3 cams except the stage 3 cam profile has a soft landing profile to cut the noise and soften the valve into the seat.

 

So if I have a TS111 with TS111 stage 2 cams, swapping the ts116 stock cams part numbers 1206091, 1206090, and 1206089 into the TS111 engine is NOT stage 3 cams for the TS111? Is that correct? There would be no advantage to install stock 116 cams into the 111 with stage 2 already done?

 

That is correct. The stock TS116 cams are NOT the same as the TS111 Stage 3 BBK cams.

The TS116 Stage 2 cams and the TS111 BBK Stage 3 cams are the same cams.

I don't know of anyone who's put stock 116 cams into a 111.

 

Thanks. I was just given brand new STOCK 116 cams for free from a buddy that bought a new bike and staged 2 his 116. We were hopeful they would be the stage 3 part number for the 111. I'm not going with the BBK, just wanting stage 3 cams and updated valve and clutch springs. I appreciate all you guys and your help.

 

What year is your bike? You may already have the upgraded valve springs if it's a 2019 or newer.

 

Its a 2014. 5100 miles. I bought it 2 years ago with 3200 miles on it I think. Might go with Lloydz 585 for the stage 3 cams. Not sure how I feel about louder valve train noise that goes with their cams. I was super hopeful for the freebie 116 cams. Lol 😆

 

You probably wont like the valvetrain noise associated with the 585 cams..
Fact is the Indian stage 3 cams (aka 116 stage 2 cams) run quiet,produce more off idle torque,and midrange than the 585s,I know I ran them both in my '15 Chieftain 111.
Also,its best if you have the upgraded valvesprings installed regardless of cam choice,Indian 111 stage 2 download,then topped off with a Powervision PV3,along with the correct map (assuming you already have a free flowing intake,and slip-ons)

 

I thought when the stock 116s came out that they had the same cams as the 111. Turns out that's not correct, but whatever the specs of the stock 116 cams are, they're not a real "performance'" cam set. My guess is that they are much like 111 stock cams, with a little bit more lift. They're nothing like the 111 Stage 2 cans, either.

 

Yes. Arlen Ness big sucker intake, Vance and Hines turn downs with baffles removed and torque inserts installed. Indian stage 2 cams, Pv3 with @CraigB1960 tune. 14 inch apes, moto horn horns, under glow, led headlight and passing lights. Most important, 1000 hp white wall tires 😆!

 

It is the 585's that slam the valves down on their seats due to their closing ramps, thus the mechanical noise. The 558's have a much gentler closing ramp, not as gentle as the 3 Indian cams, but gentler than the 585's. Tho I have not installed 558's I can't recall anyone with 558's complaining about mechanical noise, and I believe that by looking at the closing ramps.
When I had Woods 555 cams the ticking was noticeable and irritating and drove me crazy, after hearing the racket from the 585's in Walter's skoot I would have gone e mad! Riding next to him I could hear the racket over the noise from the wind and our exhausts!

RACNRAY

 

Here is the profile comparison of the Stock, 585, and 558. I do not think I have a comparison of Stage 3, 585, 558 all on one graph.

Here is the closing of the stage 3 versus 585