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Discussion Starter #1
To cool means remove heat energy water being over 3000% more efficient at doing that job than air. How is your experience . I've entered the efficient age of heat removal. Water is controllable and more even than any air cooled scooter IV put in tween my legs. Appears that manufacture are offering this option more as baggers get bigger . no itchy crotch coolers. Or bitching at light that my jewels are frying on a 95 degree day. Wonder if day of air cooled scooters are numbered. In defence those air cooled jugs are sexy. And Lord we all love jugs. Just a thought. !!!! Do a burn out leave your mark!!!!!!
 

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Plenty of people complaining that the water cooled bikes cook them too. The radiator is pulling the heat out of the engine and it doesn’t discharge that heat in some magical way far from the rider. It discharges the heat directly in front of the engine between the riders legs. When your sitting in traffic and that electric fan comes on where is it blowing that heat? Yep right back at the rider. In my experience a water cooled bike is no more comfortable than an air cooled bike. Remember they make all those heat shields for water cooled bikes too. My scout can get just as uncomfortable from engine heat as my HD.
 

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Why does it matter they all work, emission regulations are getting tougher on air cooled, but they make lots of liquid cooled bikes with fins to look air cooled anyway. As stated above the heat has to go somewhere. It doesn’t just magically disappear. They can both be hot. It might take a long time but even some liquid cooled bikes overheat eventually.
 

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I don't know exactly what the point is but I've had both types in my 51 years of owning motorcycles. Some water cooled bikes will blow hot air back on you while stopped at a traffic light on a hot day. Some maybe not as much but you're still straddling a hot engine that's about 200 degrees or so. The big Triumph Rocket III had such a huge liquid cooled motor that it's heat was always noticeable no matter what the temperature was. I've also had many air cooled motorcycles and the configuration plays a part in how heat does or doesn't get to the rider. Inline engines from vertical twins to triples or inline fours seem to keep the exhaust heat away from the rider better. They mostly lack the character that only a V-twin has but make up for that in performance for their size. Air cooled V-twins don't get as much airflow to the rear cylinder as the front and that cylinder head & it's exhaust are closer to the rider. As long as you're moving it's not a problem but if you're stopped very long or just moving too slowly it can be a bear to sit straddling such a hot motor. In fact the engine can overheat and suffer damage if this is prolonged. The 2015 Chieftain I had was pretty remarkable in that it never cooked me in the way others have complained about. I now have a Scout and only get a little hot air blow back from the radiator occasionally. Nothing bad,
 

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In my opinion, I believe that water cooled engines belong in those tupperware plastic skinned bodies only. Air cooled is for cruisers. Sure you can reduce emissions, and gain some power with water cooling. But for a cruiser, I want it as simple, and clean looking as possible.
 

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Water cooled engine will last 2-3+ times longer than air cooled without needing rings or valve work. They can also handle higher performance mods better.
 

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I have two liquid cooled V-Twins, one air cooled V-Twin and one air cooled inline Six. None of these present with heat issues greater than the other. For that matter I have yet to fine my 111 to be hot.
The only none fairing equipped motorcycle I’ve road with a heat issue in a Fatboy with a breathed on 110, it was a pizza oven with handlebars.
 

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The death knell has been tolling for some considerable time for air cooled engines and their struggle to meet ever-stringent emission figures. Manufacturers simply won't invest in the research and development to possibly have to redesign the whole concept of an 'old' air cooled engine to make it meet the new regulations. Hence the demise of the two stroke engine, 'twinkies' and removal of the best selling Sportster from the line up after 63 years. Catalytic converters and the strangulation of the engines in some cases will mean you still won't lose the conker roasting experience in heavy traffic.

........Air cooled V-twins don't get as much airflow to the rear cylinder as the front and that cylinder head & it's exhaust are closer to the rider. As long as you're moving it's not a problem but if you're stopped very long or just moving too slowly it can be a bear to sit straddling such a hot motor. In fact the engine can overheat and suffer damage if this is prolonged........
They tried to overcome this with EITMS. Engine Idle Temperature Monitoring System where the rear cylinder fuel and ignition was cut at a predetermined temperature and the rear cylinder turned into an air pump. Unusual experience and sound to say the least.

Nevertheless there is a purist niche market where even a new 'two stroker' can be made to meet these emissions but a 250cc one comes at a hefty price of $38000 in your money. V-Twin Langen Two Stroke:

2021 Langen Two Stroke First Look: Street-Legal V-Twin! (ultimatemotorcycling.com)

Realistically it is immaterial what we all prefer, legislation investment and affordability dictates to us that we will all have to embrace and eventually evolve and conform.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
If heat reduction is not better on water cooled then how can a smaller cu in motor produce more horsepower. The heat is generated in cylinder. My understanding shorter stroke. More rpm. Water cooled runs lower temp than its air cooled counterpart.
 

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If heat reduction is not better on water cooled then how can a smaller cu in motor produce more horsepower. The heat is generated in cylinder. My understanding shorter stroke. More rpm. Water cooled runs lower temp than its air cooled counterpart.
You're partially right regarding shorter piston stroke, but it has nothing to do with whether it's liquid or air cooled.

I believe the answer to your question is in the cams. Liquid cooled engines generally have overhead cams which allow the valves to stay sealed at higher rpms. Air cooled engines use push rods, which limit the rpm red line due to the push rods' mass and inertia, which lower the rpms at which the valves begin to float.

My M109R red lines at 8500. My Springfield red lines around 5000 rpm. Both are V-Twins. The M109R is faster despite the fact that displacement is smaller. Is this because it has a shorter stroke? Partially. Is this because it's liquid cooled? No. It's because it has overhead cams.

For the purpose of this response, generally speaking, rpm = horsepower. Back in the early '80s, I raced my buddy riding a Sportster. I was riding a GS550E, a four cylinder engine that was only running on 3 cylinders. I was way ahead of him, despite his having more than twice the displacement. He finally caught up to me as his top speed was about 5 mph faster than my injured bike could produce.

Push rod V-Twins is a matter of aesthetics. I personally love the look of a push rod V-Twin.
 
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