Indian Motorcycle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I called the good folks at Galfer yesterday. They are the makers of the patented Wave Rotors. They said the fixed and floating rotors for the Indian Scout are designed and built, and are going through their rigorous testing phase now. Galfer has also spoken to Indian about the Scout's stock brakes, and without getting too wordy, the guys at Indian basically held their heads in shame. They realized (probably too late) that the Scout's brakes suck. A re-work will be happening sometime in the future (not sure what year or model), and Galfer is trying to angle themselves as an OEM supplier. Galfer is already the OEM supplier for KTM motorcycles, and does private-label work for several other manufacturers, too. Of course, he couldn't tell me which companies they make private-label parts for. It's private! :)

Rough ETA on the Scout Wave Rotors, in-hand and ready to sell, would be about 6 weeks, he said. He suggested that the Wave Rotors paired with their sintered pads might be "almost too much" and would make the tires the new weak link. He understands about the hard compound rubber used in the stock Kenda tires. He's very familiar with the bike, having test-ridden them. It's turned into a bit of a personal project for him, from the sounds of it, because he likes the Scout so much that he's decided to buy one soon! :)

He told me to call back in 3 weeks and see if things are happening sooner or later than that, and I will certainly call him! MUST ... HAVE ... BRAKES!!

Indian Scout + Galfer Wave Rotors + Sintered Pads + Pirelli Night Dragon tires = Heaven on Wheels

TheDude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,431 Posts
Hi everyone,

I called the good folks at Galfer yesterday. They are the makers of the patented Wave Rotors. They said the fixed and floating rotors for the Indian Scout are designed and built, and are going through their rigorous testing phase now. Galfer has also spoken to Indian about the Scout's stock brakes, and without getting too wordy, the guys at Indian basically held their heads in shame. They realized (probably too late) that the Scout's brakes suck. A re-work will be happening sometime in the future (not sure what year or model), and Galfer is trying to angle themselves as an OEM supplier. Galfer is already the OEM supplier for KTM motorcycles, and does private-label work for several other manufacturers, too. Of course, he couldn't tell me which companies they make private-label parts for. It's private! :)

Rough ETA on the Scout Wave Rotors, in-hand and ready to sell, would be about 6 weeks, he said. He suggested that the Wave Rotors paired with their sintered pads might be "almost too much" and would make the tires the new weak link. He understands about the hard compound rubber used in the stock Kenda tires. He's very familiar with the bike, having test-ridden them. It's turned into a bit of a personal project for him, from the sounds of it, because he likes the Scout so much that he's decided to buy one soon! :)

He told me to call back in 3 weeks and see if things are happening sooner or later than that, and I will certainly call him! MUST ... HAVE ... BRAKES!!

Indian Scout + Galfer Wave Rotors + Sintered Pads + Pirelli Night Dragon tires = Heaven on Wheels

TheDude
Did they mention if they'll be compatible with both ABS and non-ABS models?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I didn't ask because my bike doesn't have ABS -- the thought didn't even cross my mind. I would think that they would be compatible with ABS as the tone ring used by the ABS system is a separate component. That is what feeds your wheel speed information (front and rear) to the ABS computer to determine if one is slipping and whether it's slipping while accelerating, or slipping while decelerating.

I forgot to mention, since I was speaking the Brake Guru himself, their Head of R&D, he confirmed for me that a floating rear rotor would be tremendously better for the rear brake consider it uses a (shitty) single-piston caliper. I asked him if he thought it would matter much since it already sucks, or would a solid rotor do well enough. Floating rotors all the way. The only advantage to solid rotors -- like what's already on the Scout -- is their price, that's it.

TheDude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,431 Posts
I didn't ask because my bike doesn't have ABS -- the thought didn't even cross my mind. I would think that they would be compatible with ABS as the tone ring used by the ABS system is a separate component. That is what feeds your wheel speed information (front and rear) to the ABS computer to determine if one is slipping and whether it's slipping while accelerating, or slipping while decelerating.

I forgot to mention, since I was speaking the Brake Guru himself, their Head of R&D, he confirmed for me that a floating rear rotor would be tremendously better for the rear brake consider it uses a (shitty) single-piston caliper. I asked him if he thought it would matter much since it already sucks, or would a solid rotor do well enough. Floating rotors all the way. The only advantage to solid rotors -- like what's already on the Scout -- is their price, that's it.

TheDude
My concern is the rotor for ABS models have special tone ring drill-outs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I checked Indian's online parts-finder. I don't see an "ABS-only Rotor" listed. The expanded view looks like both ABS and non-ABS bikes use the same rotor.

Edit: I searched for 2016 Scout parts because no US Scouts had ABS in 2015.

Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 6.28.02 PM.png Screen Shot 2016-02-10 at 6.28.46 PM.png
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Looks like item#10 is ring for ABS
It is. The diagram shows one rotor, and one rotor only for the Scout. Both rotors, front and rear, are identical. I don't see anything special about the rotors for ABS Scouts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
thats good news for all, thanks for checkin that out! Vic uses the same 2 pc, barely moving rotors with heavy steel centers that don't dissipate heat as good as lighter alum centers for different models front + rear, color of center varies + bigger bagger models use a thicker pair up front. i was surprised how good my single 4 piston unit on my 13 hammer was, researching revealed bigger pistons than the dual units on the baggers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
I didn't ask because my bike doesn't have ABS -- the thought didn't even cross my mind. I would think that they would be compatible with ABS as the tone ring used by the ABS system is a separate component. That is what feeds your wheel speed information (front and rear) to the ABS computer to determine if one is slipping and whether it's slipping while accelerating, or slipping while decelerating.

I forgot to mention, since I was speaking the Brake Guru himself, their Head of R&D, he confirmed for me that a floating rear rotor would be tremendously better for the rear brake consider it uses a (shitty) single-piston caliper. I asked him if he thought it would matter much since it already sucks, or would a solid rotor do well enough. Floating rotors all the way. The only advantage to solid rotors -- like what's already on the Scout -- is their price, that's it.

TheDude
Ive had most bikes with floating rotors but I don't see a real advantage on a cruiser. I cant see riding hard enough for our brakes to overheat and not cool down enough for the next application...am I missing something? not arguing just curious!
 

·
Diamond member
Joined
·
9,096 Posts
Ive had most bikes with floating rotors but I don't see a real advantage on a cruiser. I cant see riding hard enough for our brakes to overheat and not cool down enough for the next application...am I missing something? not arguing just curious!
Floating rotors are not only better for heat dissipation, but also for noise and resonation. Which my Scouts front brake hums like a choir..
Also, they aid against warping, you do not have to over heat a rotor persay to warp it, many heat and cool cycles will eventually bring a rotor out of true. Also Floating rotors also are self aligning, giving better feel and optimum placement, equaling smoother operation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,025 Posts
lighter floating rotors with an aluminum center will help a bit but a better caliper is the solution! hardly must be feeling $$$ the competition from scout + octane as they released a new sportster with dual discs + a better suspension, same low power engine though!! competition is good for the buyer + hopefully polaris will take note!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Have there been any updates on this?
Yeah, man. It was the weirdest thing. Weird enough for a conspiracy theory.

The gentlemen at Galfer whom I had called, and come to know was gone one day when I called. I was told by his replacement that he no longer worked there. I explained that I had been in contact with the previous head of R&D at Galfer, and that he had asked me to call back in 2 weeks, which made it today, regarding the status of the initial batch of Scout wave rotors. They were, according to what I was told, being shipped from their facility in Spain where they do all of the laser cutting, and I was calling to check on the incoming shipment because they wanted to do some final testing before they started selling them. Everything so far seems logical, and made sense from what I had learned about the company. In their company YouTube videos, they even mention how all of the main metalwork is performed in their facility in Spain. He knew what he was talking about when it came to rotors. He had previously worked for H-D, and had been on their V-ROD design team (according to what he told me). We would shoot the shit for 10-15 minutes at a time just talking bike stuff. He seemed like a cool guy.

Anyway, when the new guy told me that he had been replaced, he said he had NO INFORMATION whatsoever about Indian Scout rotors, and that Galfer had no plans on releasing any, and none for the big Indians either. He seemed unusually adamant about that, and apologized for MY confusion. Now, who the heck knows what happened internally at Galfer, but going by the final phone call alone, and the subtle cues given with the new guys tone of voice, I'd say somebody was "persuaded" to not make rotors for Indian. Keep in mind that, at the time, Galfer was trying to break into the large cruiser market, and we all know Harley-Davidson is the 800-pound guerrilla in the room. I'm guessing, and this is my "wild conspiracy theory," that Galfer was convinced to not do it. Otherwise, why would the original head of R&D at Galfer spend so much time on the phone with me, shooting the shit, for several phone calls? I probably called him 10-12 times, for 15-20 minutes each. He was always good for a chat. I don't know, man. It's all very strange to me.

TheDude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
582 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Unlikely for many reasons, first of which was that there was no direct cooperation between Galfer and Indian. Galfer does not need, nor expect the blessing from any OEM before it starts making better parts for it. Does Corbin ask Indian's permission before they make a seat? Biltwell before they make a handlebar? Nah.

TheDude
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
If these ever see the light of day, I don't think I'd wait too long to buy one. While at least IMO the scouts oe brakes are definitely a step above the junk that comes on most "entry level" bikes (read: harley street), and the ss lines are nice, the rest definitely has room for improvement. The lever feel is good, just outright power is lacking.
 

·
Diamond member
Joined
·
9,096 Posts
If these ever see the light of day, I don't think I'd wait too long to buy one. While at least IMO the scouts oe brakes are definitely a step above the junk that comes on most "entry level" bikes (read: harley street), and the ss lines are nice, the rest definitely has room for improvement. The lever feel is good, just outright power is lacking.
I'd say for about 3 good uses, they have decent power, but after that, they begin to fade a bit.. but, I agree completely. They are par, or slightly above other premium brands entry level efforts . They are about as good as my Bonneville, except lever feel is better on Scout due to braided hoses..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Might be worth looking at KTM Superduke 1290 R forums for brake vibration on factory fitted wave discs before you comit to buy
 

·
Diamond member
Joined
·
9,096 Posts
Might be worth looking at KTM Superduke 1290 R forums for brake vibration on factory fitted wave discs before you comit to buy
Good advice.
However, I know nothing of the details on this, but I'd have to point at KTM for this..
These rotors are fitted to many bikes with great success.. and with the experience I had with KTM, I have no choice but to assume something other than rotors.. I'd assume something like caliper alignment, mounts, or something of the sort...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Good advice.
However, I know nothing of the details on this, but I'd have to point at KTM for this..
These rotors are fitted to many bikes with great success.. and with the experience I had with KTM, I have no choice but to assume something other than rotors.. I'd assume something like caliper alignment, mounts, or something of the sort...
Strange thing is some are having standard rotors fitted in there place and no problems anymore, dont have any axe to grind, just trying to be helpfull
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top