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Hmm, funny 3 months ago Amanda also had an update and said they were made and, on the way from New Zealand. From what I have heard through the grapevine, is these cams are made by cutting off the compression release mechanism from the stock cams and welding it on to the new cam, as they cannot legally reproduce the compression release mechanism.
 

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Hmm, funny 3 months ago Amanda also had an update and said they were made and, on the way from New Zealand. From what I have heard through the grapevine, is these cams are made by cutting off the compression release mechanism from the stock cams and welding it on to the new cam, as they cannot legally reproduce the compression release mechanism.
Someone could in theory make just that piece and call it a "jewelry trinket." What someone does w/ their trinket after purchase is up to them. Merchandise counterfeiters often do this: creating separate pieces of the product, which in of itself isn't always considered counterfeit but once put together, it is a counterfeit piece. There was a documentary about how U.S. Customs agents deal with this all the time. If I can find it, I'll post a link in the Off Topic lounge and link this discussion.
 

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If these cams need to swap the compression release (CR) from the stock set to the replacements, I would run very far away from these cams. Have a buddy that worked with some folks to create a prototype cam for the original TS111 in 2015. They were able to machine the release out of the stock and get it placed in the prototype, but it never worked as was intended and the compression at start up led to the starter being replaced 4 times. I get that there may be differences between the TS 111 and PP108 cams, but there is a reason that S&S owns the patent on that, as well as a reason that they can't produce their own aftermarket cams for Indian bikes.

If people do have to swap the CR, I am guessing that anyone that chooses to take this on will have to have their cams removed, send them to Lloyd to have the compression release moved (by whatever means) and then returned for install.
 

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The cams aren't the issue, it's the mass production of them, suppliers.... I mean it isn't hard to believe, people aren't even getting their bikes for months and they're bought and paid for.
 
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Unfortunately, the UnRuly One is correct.
 
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Indian chose this path purposely to lock up the aftermarket. Kind of sucks but the Challenger is already fast, so no big deal.
Speak for yourself, slow poke, lol.

Yet it will still get whooped by pretty much any build from Moonshine HD. The Challenger platform needs the aftermarket support.
It will. It's a bike and motor that has been out for only 2 years (as we all know), and already does what it does against the competition. Not worried about it.

I've been running 137whp with Lloydz cams for a year now, and nothing under 131ci bagger HD, not the "Stage 4", has hung with it. And at that point, I'm almost glad to lose... they ask why... cause I can't help but giggle how proud they are to beat a little cammed 108 with their $10k 131+. It's like a guy with a 454 Camaro bragging about beating a cammed 305 Nova, lol. Yeah, I hope you do! lol
 

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Speak for yourself, slow poke, lol.


It will. It's a bike and motor that has been out for only 2 years (as we all know), and already does what it does against the competition. Not worried about it.

I've been running 137whp with Lloydz cams for a year now, and nothing under 131ci bagger HD, not the "Stage 4", has hung with it. And at that point, I'm almost glad to lose... they ask why... cause I can't help but giggle how proud they are to beat a little cammed 108 with their $10k 131+. It's like a guy with a 454 Camaro bragging about beating a cammed 305 Nova, lol. Yeah, I hope you do! lol
Wait am I missing something here ? Did Lloydz produce a set of cams for the Challenger already ?


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And my $11,500 Ducati Monster 1200 will beat anything Moonshine HD has. You’ve got to compare apples to apples.
This is an American V-twin being compared to an American V-twin. Both 800+ pound baggers... I'd say it's a fair comparison other than engine technology. Harley is getting it done with larger displacement and aftermarket support, Indian is getting it done with more advanced engine design with a smaller, over-square bore and a better engineered chassis.

I'm not arguing a race between crotch-rocket and a bagger, that is apple's to oranges as you stated. I'm arguing that if the Challenger platform wants to do better than what it currently is, it will need the aftermarket support. I don't see our bikes making 160-170hp yet, I hope that happens within the next few years. Indian isn't gonna make that happen, it will be the race teams and aftermarket manufacturers pushing more innovation.

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@Unruly One the only way this comparison would make sense is if you took a Challenger and compared it to a RG and they both had similar mods. You can’t compare a fully built HD engine to a Challenger that’s only got stage 2 cams, aftermarket exhaust, and a canned tune.
 

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@Unruly One the only way this comparison would make sense is if you took a Challenger and compared it to a RG and they both had similar mods. You can’t compare a fully built HD engine to a Challenger that’s only got stage 2 cams, aftermarket exhaust, and a canned tune.
Do you want real world or fair? Because in the real world, fair is what you pulled up at the light next to. A real world comparison would be what you lined up at the friday night test and tune next to. Nobody is arguing stock vs stock... stock is great for reliability, but some of us want more performance.

I came from a highly modified 150hp Dyna with an S&S 124ci crate engine, followed by an lightly modified FTR, followed by a Yamaha MT10. Stock was great on all of those bikes for awhile, but eventually you want a little more. That's really my only gripe with this motorcycle, and Indian motorcycles in general... the lack of solid aftermarket parts.

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Don't forget to take into account that ALL of these legitimate after marker hi-perf shops will NOW need to comply with both NOISE and EMISSION regulations, especially for street bikes. There will always be the "underground" market making mechanical performance parts, but unless you rip out all of the electronics and software and go back to carbeurated bikes, you're never going to get the software to flash your ECU to meet EPA guidelines. We all know that all of the diesel aftermarket tuners (outside of the ones who comply with emissions/noise/smoke) are LONG gone. That's coming and moving quickly with the gasoline tuners for cars, bikes and trucks. Wasn't there a recent issue with Dynojet and/or Fuelmoto on this very matter?? Now if you have a bike for the track, no registration, and none of the street legal requirements, that's a different story. But let's face it, how often do you see a track bike on the street.......at least one with serious performance mods and BE EPA compliant? The Asian and Italian OEM bikes are the only manufacturers capable of making a "track bike for the street" and being 100% EPA legal regarding noise and emissions!
 
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