TS111 possible lean (tune) issue

1106 Views 34 Replies 12 Participants Last post by cmoalem, 7 d ago

JOHNNY3FINGERS

Discussion Starter · 17 d ago

TS111
Rinehart - full system
Wimmer round AC
Stg3 cams

Im not a mechanic so if anyone happens across this thread and understands how to read plugs could you comment with your opinion of please.
Thank you.

Have some pinging. Sounds like a chain rattling around in my top end. Thought it was bad gas but its always there.

Maybe I have a lean condition and need my tune adjusted?

I can make it happen at any time. If I accelerate with more than a gentle roll it starts, from there if I go WOT it stops and when cruising steady its not present either.

Changed the plugs to iridium and one step cooler w/.040 gap but its not going to make any improvement if I am lean.

I am not a mechanic. Heres what came out of it. Top pic is more what they look like (white). Bottom pic didn't really capture the ashy look of them

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SJ12DS

· #21 · 14 d ago

Log data and get an updated tune ✅ ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓

Reactions: 1

JOHNNY3FINGERS

Discussion Starter · #22 · 14 d ago

SJ12DS said:
Log data and get an updated tune ✅ ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓

No time Worked Sunday Midnight to 10am and every day since and its also raining now.
But its on my list for next week

Reactions: 2

CraigB1960

· #23 · 13 d ago

JOHNNY3FINGERS said:
No time Worked Sunday Midnight to 10am and every day since and its also raining now.
But its on my list for next week

Record a couple of data logs..riding around at different RPM and Load conditions for at least 30 minutes or longer. The PV3 will record for 27 minutes or so, close the file and automatically open a second one and keep going. The important point is to stop recording by pressing the button with the circle on it before you shut off the engine or you will lose any open log file.

ANOTHER vitally important point is to ride the bike for at least 5 minutes BEFORE you begin recording. Otherwise you will be recording enrichment mode data at idle and my corrections will over correct the idle cells. This is true even if the engine is hot. It takes engine temperature and distance for the ECU to switch off the enrichment mode. I believe Polaris does this to protect the engine if you should leave the engine idling too long. Now with this said, spark knock could care less about enrichment mode, but if I am going to look at your logs, I am going to correct your tune for fuel and ignition events.

Send me your logs AND the tune that you used to record the logs. I good as I try to be saving all tunes in folders I have sent out, it has become like looking for a needle in a hay stack. Send me this to me at indiantuning at gmail dot com.

I will be going on another bucket list trip on June 8th and will not be back until June 15th...so if you send it during that time it will not be addressed until I come back. If before, I will send a revision right out.

Just a note on reading plugs. With all the additives in our gas now, it is near impossible to gain any useful info (IMHO). Unless your 02 sensors are not working (you will get a DTC) or you spend all your operating time above 4k and/or high load, you are running in closed-loop operation. This is where the ECU uses the o2 sensors to maintain a 14.7:1 AFR. Reading plugs is basically reading the crap that is in the gas at that AFR.

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CraigB1960

· #24 · 13 d ago

Skidmore111 said:
The intake boots are black rubber parts that connect the intake manifold to the cylinder heads.
New ones are cheap but a bit of a pain to swap out.You can test them spraying WD-40 or brake cleaner while the bike is running -the engine will stumble or in some cases will rise depending on the chemical being used.

The intake adapters that the boots connect to are also a big problem area. I have never been successful finding the cracks that develop on the rubber sealing surface that seals the adapter to the head with sprays. But have through observing the 02 operation and indicators like poor idle, and off-idle stubble.

Reactions: 5

CraigB1960

· #25 · 13 d ago

SJ12DS said:
I just feel that after his health situation that I don't want to bother him with my troubles.

I certainly appreciate this! I am okay most of the time, so feel free to reach out when needed.

Reactions: 4

cmoalem

· #26 · 13 d ago

CraigB1960 said:
Record a couple of data logs..riding around at different RPM and Load conditions for at least 30 minutes or longer. The PV3 will record for 27 minutes or so, close the file and automatically open a second one and keep going. The important point is to stop recording by pressing the button with the circle on it before you shut off the engine or you will lose any open log file.

ANOTHER vitally important point is to ride the bike for at least 5 minutes BEFORE you begin recording. Otherwise you will be recording enrichment mode data at idle and my corrections will over correct the idle cells. This is true even if the engine is hot. It takes engine temperature and distance for the ECU to switch off the enrichment mode. I believe Polaris does this to protect the engine if you should leave the engine idling too long. Now with this said, spark knock could care less about enrichment mode, but if I am going to look at your logs, I am going to correct your tune for fuel and ignition events.

Send me your logs AND the tune that you used to record the logs. I good as I try to be saving all tunes in folders I have sent out, it has become like looking for a needle in a hay stack. Send me this to me at indiantuning at gmail dot com.

I will be going on another bucket list trip on June 8th and will not be back until June 15th...so if you send it during that time it will not be addressed until I come back. If before, I will send a revision right out.

Just a note on reading plugs. With all the additives in our gas now, it is near impossible to gain any useful info (IMHO). Unless your 02 sensors are not working (you will get a DTC) or you spend all your operating time above 4k and/or high load, you are running in closed-loop operation. This is where the ECU uses the o2 sensors to maintain a 14.7:1 AFR. Reading plugs is basically reading the crap that is in the gas at that AFR.

Dear, set the rev_min to exclude the idle range in the formulas (in addition to engine temp min)

I have very good results with this ... (and mostly tweak idle VEs manually meanwhile after taking dedicated idle logs ... cold, warming up and at about 280 engine temp ... after a ride)

Sent from my SM-N976Q using Tapatalk

Reactions: 1

SZairborne

· #27 · 12 d ago

I have my Super Chief Limited with the 116 that been in the shop for 2 months now for a lean / overheating issue. Between engineering and tech they finally determined it has to be coming from the intake. The damn near replaced everything else. I have the Indian stage 1 forward intake on it, stage 1 mufflers, and stage 2 cams / throttle body upgrades on it.

Reactions: 2

JOHNNY3FINGERS

Discussion Starter · #28 · 12 d ago

SZairborne said:
I have my Super Chief Limited with the 116 that been in the shop for 2 months now for a lean / overheating issue. Between engineering and tech they finally determined it has to be coming from the intake. The damn near replaced everything else. I have the Indian stage 1 forward intake on it, stage 1 mufflers, and stage 2 cams / throttle body upgrades on it.

I’m obviously no expert( looking for help myself.) but, that sounds like.

1) their stupid epa compliant tune.

2) possible install issue with AC (leaks someplace). Or perhaps product is faulty.

I know “install issue” may sound ridiculous, like how can anyone screw up an AC installation, ………
but a good, <—emphasis on that word, mechanic is tough to find. Just bc they work at dealership doesn’t mean they pay attention to detail or even give a sh1t about a customers bike.

2 months is a looooong time I’d be more than a little unhappy!

Reactions: 2

cmoalem

· #29 · 12 d ago

.
wrong thread

Reactions: 1

SJ12DS

· #30 · 12 d ago

@CraigB1960 l know you will help me because like I said, that is who you are.

But, unless it is terrible, I am not going to bother you. So far it is working better.

Enjoy your bucket list trip. You deserve it.

Where are you going?

Dean E

· #31 · 12 d ago

CraigB1960 said:
The intake adapters that the boots connect to are also a big problem area. I have never been successful finding the cracks that develop on the rubber sealing surface that seals the adapter to the head with sprays. But have through observing the 02 operation and indicators like poor idle, and off-idle stubble.

Yeah, @RACNRAY got me going on this Japanese Three Bond 1211 silicon gasket RTV. Great stuff! On any new intake manifold boot I install a put a thin coating of these stuff and it appears to hold up very well. Once I get things bolted up an tighted I clean off any excess that is in the inside area before installing the intake manifold. Have not had any further issues with the boots leaking. Dean

Reactions: 4

Charlie Chaplain

· #32 · 12 d ago

Dean E said:
Yeah, @RACNRAY got me going on this Japanese Three Bond 1211 silicon gasket RTV. Great stuff! On any new intake manifold boot I install a put a thin coating of these stuff and it appears to hold up very well. Once I get things bolted up an tighted I clean off any excess that is in the inside area before installing the intake manifold. Have not had any further issues with the boots leaking. Dean

Dean, the Three Bond 1211 is great stuff. I use it at the shop and home, it is even better than Yamabond. It works really well putting a two stroke motor together. I will try a little on the intake boots on my 1971 CB750K1 when I put the carbs back on.
Charlie

Reactions: 1

CraigB1960

· #33 · 7 d ago

Dean E said:
Yeah, @RACNRAY got me going on this Japanese Three Bond 1211 silicon gasket RTV. Great stuff! On any new intake manifold boot I install a put a thin coating of these stuff and it appears to hold up very well. Once I get things bolted up an tighted I clean off any excess that is in the inside area before installing the intake manifold. Have not had any further issues with the boots leaking. Dean

Also, there is a very good aviation sealant that Rolls Royce uses on their jet engines: Hylomar Universal Blue Non-Setting Sealant Silicone Jointing Compound

Reactions: 2

Dean E

· #34 · 7 d ago

CraigB1960 said:
Also, there is a very good aviation sealant that Rolls Royce uses on their jet engines: Hylomar Universal Blue Non-Setting Sealant Silicone Jointing Compound

If Rolls Royce is using it then it is guaranteed to work but also quite expensive! Dassault has some epoxy primers (pac 33) that is quite amazing. I'm sure the cancer warnings for it are numerous but not many paint strippers will phase it. Dean

Reactions: 1

cmoalem

· #35 · 7 d ago

CraigB1960 said:
Also, there is a very good aviation sealant that Rolls Royce uses on their jet engines: Hylomar Universal Blue Non-Setting Sealant Silicone Jointing Compound

Ha ... I have used Hylomar on car engines when e.g. replacing a waterpump! Very good stuff!

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Reactions: 1

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