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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for some experience and wisdom!

The bike heat kills me, and I couldn't take it any longer, so, I decided to get the cat removed by American Custom. Since I assumed a tune would be needed, I opted for an S & S intake and a PVCX at the same time. Indian part prices are absurd.

Fast forward: Bike is back together. Bought the PVCX from Fuelmoto. Their tune was bad. Bike ran very rough. I was told to drive the bike for a bit so the computer could 'learn'. Done these kinds of things before and this made no sense to me. Just did the same thing on my FZ with great results from the get-go. Anyway, not much else was offered, so I went directly to Dynojet. Great company. By the way, I think Fuelmoto is a good company too, but DJ tech is way better.

DJ sent a new tune which made a difference. However, the motor had a hard time with throttle blips. Almost like it was getting flooded. Talked to DJ again. They said they've heard that complaint before on an Indian. So, they sent me another tune. Much better.

But, here is my experience at this point:

1. The S & S intake is loud (some in a good way, like when its sucking air!), but it kinda makes a clacking sound at idle. If I put my hand over the filter, the clacking sound goes away. I can deal with this though.

2. The American Custom cat removal is nicely done. They seem to be on the ball! The sound is a bit louder. But so is the tinniness of the exhaust. Always hated that. How exactly how do I get rid of this? New mufflers?

3. The idle is still rougher than stock. Bearable though. Certainly not like an older HD. The throttle response does seem better though. And for sure, the heat is much less.

All of the posts I can find so far concerning these mods don't seem to have the same issues. So, am I missing something? Am I the only one working on a third tune and most likely a forth? And don't forget the tinny exhaust sound.

I wanted to be excited about all of this since I LOVE this bike!! But so far, I'm wondering why I even bothered. Hoping riding this weekend will change my mind.

Anyway, advice, experience, ideas, etc. will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Gary
 

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That reminds me I need to give Fuel Moto a ring to see about the same issue with throttle blips. I never knew how to exactly describe it. The rough idle I fixed by bumping it up 50rpm. Everything else I fixed easy enough with my computer. The PVCX was the best thing I bought for it as I can tinker with it as I learn more about what the hell I'm doing with it.
 

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I didn't want that tinny exhaust sound that I heard others got from their cat being decatted from American Customs, so I went with FuelMoto's catless Jackpot header.

It sounds louder, deep, and rumbles great, not any tinny sound at all.

I know it cost more, and takes a little effort to install it, but it was well worth it in my opinion.



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Live Free - Ride Hard - Die Well
 

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Noisy Air Cleaner ... nature of the beast ... known side effect!
Some have reduced the sound by relocating the crank case vent tube from the back of the open air cleaner (plugging the hole at the backplate) with a longer tube and a small crank case filter at the end.

Degutted midpipe allowing mufflers to sound tinny ... also reported here several times. (But highly dependant on baffle construction and guage of metal in the exhaust stream ... so some experimenting here is the ticket ... well or go with the Jackpots. Mine sound with performance baffled Lloydz mufflers aggressively "harsh banging" but not tinny at all. )

As for fine fuel delivery for throttle "blips" (something anyway disputable) I can imagine the more linear DBW tables of the FM tunes need more getting used to. But you can easily go back to stock DBW tables with the Powercore C3 Software and be done. As for fuelling ... none of the tunes are different (enough) from the factory tunes in the low load areas to cause a stumble through overfuelling (and your short term and long term fuel trims which need to get relearned after EVERY ECU reset would compensate to get to 14.7 closed loop again after a while anyway)!!!

So ... your perceived issues can be fixed but need a bit of patience ... and none are truly PVCX related. It's more a Stage I mod thing. ;)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

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Looking for some experience and wisdom!

The bike heat kills me, and I couldn't take it any longer, so, I decided to get the cat removed by American Custom. Since I assumed a tune would be needed, I opted for an S & S intake and a PVCX at the same time. Indian part prices are absurd.

Fast forward: Bike is back together. Bought the PVCX from Fuelmoto. Their tune was bad. Bike ran very rough. I was told to drive the bike for a bit so the computer could 'learn'. Done these kinds of things before and this made no sense to me. Just did the same thing on my FZ with great results from the get-go. Anyway, not much else was offered, so I went directly to Dynojet. Great company. By the way, I think Fuelmoto is a good company too, but DJ tech is way better.

DJ sent a new tune which made a difference. However, the motor had a hard time with throttle blips. Almost like it was getting flooded. Talked to DJ again. They said they've heard that complaint before on an Indian. So, they sent me another tune. Much better.

But, here is my experience at this point:

1. The S & S intake is loud (some in a good way, like when its sucking air!), but it kinda makes a clacking sound at idle. If I put my hand over the filter, the clacking sound goes away. I can deal with this though.

2. The American Custom cat removal is nicely done. They seem to be on the ball! The sound is a bit louder. But so is the tinniness of the exhaust. Always hated that. How exactly how do I get rid of this? New mufflers?

3. The idle is still rougher than stock. Bearable though. Certainly not like an older HD. The throttle response does seem better though. And for sure, the heat is much less.

All of the posts I can find so far concerning these mods don't seem to have the same issues. So, am I missing something? Am I the only one working on a third tune and most likely a forth? And don't forget the tinny exhaust sound.

I wanted to be excited about all of this since I LOVE this bike!! But so far, I'm wondering why I even bothered. Hoping riding this weekend will change my mind.

Anyway, advice, experience, ideas, etc. will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Gary
Did you unplug the mufflers or replace them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Went out for a 40 mile test run. For sure the bike is faster. Sounds great at WOT too! Love hearing a motor sucking in air! I agree with the 50 rpm boost. So, aside from the 'tin' I'm happy for the most part. So nice to not fry my leg too. I do still think the throttle blip is off a bit. But I think there is also an improvement in overall response.

Masspatriot - I didn't unplug the mufflers. Left them stock. I think the volume is nice if your on the bike for a long ride. Then again every time I hear a loud ass Harley go by I'm sorta envious of the sound! I love my bike, but I still think the Harley's sound is the high water mark!

Will have to checkout the Powercore software.

One question: will after market mufflers rid the tinniness? Or just mask it with volume? Well, I guess either way it's 'gone'!

Thanks for the replies!

Gary
 

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I agree, but hardly anyone else will say this: on my bike the DJ tune ran much better than the FM tune. And no one ever told me to give it a while...

I don't have time, nor want to take time, to learn how to fine tune/tweak the "tables" in the ECU. IMHO that's the job of FM or DJ.

My de-gutted pipe with Indian stage 1's sounds a bit tinny, especially when first started. But I got over it, don't notice it much any more. I have a buddy who fixed the tinny sound by going from Indian stage 1's to the RCX mufflers, it does sound good.

My Indian high flow intake sounds good, I kinda like the sucking sound the big engine makes under load.
 

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Went out for a 40 mile test run. For sure the bike is faster. Sounds great at WOT too! Love hearing a motor sucking in air! I agree with the 50 rpm boost. So, aside from the 'tin' I'm happy for the most part. So nice to not fry my leg too. I do still think the throttle blip is off a bit. But I think there is also an improvement in overall response.

Masspatriot - I didn't unplug the mufflers. Left them stock. I think the volume is nice if your on the bike for a long ride. Then again every time I hear a loud ass Harley go by I'm sorta envious of the sound! I love my bike, but I still think the Harley's sound is the high water mark!

Will have to checkout the Powercore software.

One question: will after market mufflers rid the tinniness? Or just mask it with volume? Well, I guess either way it's 'gone'!

Thanks for the replies!

Gary
I'm not positive on this, but aren't most tunes designed around having more free flowing exhaust than stock? It seems counter intuitive to open up air intake on the front end without opening up the back end as well. I would guess that a set of slip ons would greatly improve your setup as it would allow all that extra air coming in a smoother path out and thus an easier to tune machine. Also as for the number of tunes you have done. It took me 9 separate tunes, each time tweaked by CraigB who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about the PVCX. If you want a canned tune you will not get all the parameters perfect for your machines specific fueling/timing needs. Dyno or an experienced PVCX tuner is the only way to go for that. I would be cautious about digging too deep into my ECM via powercore unless I really felt confident that I knew why/what I was doing. I looked into it and decided I was biting off more than I could chew. If you can't find a canned tune to get your scoot running up to snuff I would drop CraigB a line and see if he can get you where you need to be. He got my bike running like a champ in a few weeks of tuning. Also, I knocked my plugs out of my stock pipes and thought it sounded absolutely horrible, to each their own.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
BaggerVance: you are correct, it makes more sense to to do both. I was thinking gutting the cat was increasing the flow out the back. In any event, I finally went back to stock everything except the cat of course. For me, it come down to sound. And again to me, I found the bike overall sounds better with the stock intake. Crazy, right? So, no need for the tuning headache.

Yes, it could be faster with all the mods, but I don’t really care. It’s not that much of a difference. I didn’t buy the bike for performance anyway. I feel in love with the look. I have a sport bike for performance.

I admit though, I wanted to sound like a Harley. And the only way to do that is obvious. Oh well . . . .
 

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BaggerVance: you are correct, it makes more sense to to do both. I was thinking gutting the cat was increasing the flow out the back. In any event, I finally went back to stock everything except the cat of course. For me, it come down to sound. And again to me, I found the bike overall sounds better with the stock intake. Crazy, right? So, no need for the tuning headache.

Yes, it could be faster with all the mods, but I don’t really care. It’s not that much of a difference. I didn’t buy the bike for performance anyway. I feel in love with the look. I have a sport bike for performance.

I admit though, I wanted to sound like a Harley. And the only way to do that is obvious. Oh well . . . .
The noise of the A/C (I went with Performance Machine) drove me crazy at idle. It was the crankcase breather going back into the intake. I relocated that down the frame and to a crankcase filter. Problem solved, quiet as a mouse.

The stock header with the CAT removed does make the exhaust sound tinny at times and retains a large amount of heat due to the amount of casting used. The FM header took care of that from both heat and deepened the sound.

I punched the plugs out of my stock muffler, which caused the exhaust to sound tinny at idle. I recently tested a stage 1 exhaust, which was very quiet (slightly louder, but much deeper than my stock setup) and it had no tinny sound at idle.

As far as sounding like an HD at idle, well, the only way to get that is to open up with an A/C and exhaust, but really need a cam. The stock cam just does not have the overlap that one needs for that HD sound.

Below is what needs to be done if you want a quiet performance A/C. Also keeps the oil mist out of your intake and combustion chamber, which is a good thing.

Motorcycle Auto part Vehicle Automotive lighting Motorcycle accessories
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Craig, I can deal with the sound of an Indian as long as it doesn't have that 'tinny' sound. Yep, I would like the lope, but that can wait. Sounds like I should copy you. The breather clack was making me nuts!! And as I said, the four tunes was not enough to get it correct. By the way, I think the Performance Machine A/C is a beauty!

So, where did you get the hose to run the breather line down the frame, and what filter? FM is what header by the way? I guess I should know this.

Thanks!!

Gary
 

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Craig, I can deal with the sound of an Indian as long as it doesn't have that 'tinny' sound. Yep, I would like the lope, but that can wait. Sounds like I should copy you. The breather clack was making me nuts!! And as I said, the four tunes was not enough to get it correct. By the way, I think the Performance Machine A/C is a beauty!

So, where did you get the hose to run the breather line down the frame, and what filter? FM is what header by the way? I guess I should know this.

Thanks!!

Gary
The hose specs are 13mm (1/2" ID) silicone vacuum hose for turbo intercooler applications. I got mine from eBay.
The crankcase filter is UNI UP-123 Fits 1/2" ID Hose Crankcase Differential Head Vent Breather Filter. I got mine from eBay.

The crankcase hose did go to the backplate of the PM A/C, which had an hose elbow screwed into it. It was a standard thread that electrical boxes use for conduit connections, so I used an electrical box screw-in aluminum plug to plug off my PM A/C backplate hole.

The FM Header is the FuelMotoUSA Jackpot header. It is a well made header, made of stainless steel and does not retain the heat that the stock header does. I had removed my own CAT material and welded it up, the FM Jackpot header was so much better in several areas.

Here's a write-up on installation. It has photos of the product as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Craig, I was working with Dynojet trying to get a good tune for the bike with the aftermarket a/c and gutted cat. Dynojet implied that I could leave the stock tune if I returned to the stock a/c and gutted cat, which I did. I'm still wondering if this is correct. Fuelmoto for sure thinks I need a tune with stock intake and their Jackpot exhaust. Did you use their tune or did you do something else?
 

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Both FM and Dynojet have a Stock Improved, which is what I would run for your configuration. Any minor difference, the ECU will trim and learn through the Short & Long Term Fuel Trims as log as it is running in closed-loop operation, which is idle through cruise range.

I do not run either of their tunes or perhaps a combination of both, not quite sure anymore. But regardless, I tuned my bike myself using narrowband & wideband sensors and Dynojet's Power Core Software Suite.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks! You are certainly way smarter than me when it comes to tuning.
 
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