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I stopped by an Indian dealer yesterday to see if they had any aftermarket headers w/o CATs and sure enough, they have a set of Fuel Motto Jackpots. I was hoping to get a set of those or TAB Performance headers. Since the dealership had the Jackpots in stock, I scheduled the install. In the past, this is something I’d do myself, but I now live in an apartment and no longer have the tools or space to do the install myself. Thanks Hurricane Michael!

Back on point. While talking with the parts desk, I asked if they do any tuning or carry any of the aftermarket tuners. One of the service technicians was at the parts desk at the time and both the parts salesman and the service tech recommended staying away from tuners if I wasn’t going to be hammering the bike for top speeds or acceleration. In short, they said Indian is constantly pushing bulletins to the techs about staying away from tuners due to the how much wear the adjustments to air:fuel ratios put on the engines. In short, they recommended staying with the stock tune/calibration reflash done by Indian if I don’t plan on racing the bike and want longevity out of the engine.

I’m getting rid of the stock headers to decrease the heat coming off the right side. With as big and heavy as this bike is, I have no intentions of pounding it and I’m not worried about top speeds or torque. I find the bike plenty fast enough and quick enough for my liking. The reason I asked about a tune was to make sure the air:fuel ratio is properly balanced since I’m altering the exhaust setup by changing the headers.

Some info about the bike; it’s a 2018 Roadmaster. The bike already has Stage 1 and I’m uncertain about whether the Stage 2 cams have been installed. The shop is going to check the ECU to see if it’s been reflashed with the Stage 2 calibration card when they do the header install. I bought the bike used with less than 1,000 miles on it and the previous owner bought it new from the dealership after they dumped a bunch of upgrades into it. He has no idea what was done to the bike, buying it because he liked way it looks and didn’t do anything to it besides break it in. The VIN pull doesn’t show any info on work the dealership did to the bike; it looks like the tech never updated the system.

Given what the shop said and what I’m looking for with swapping the headers, what are your thoughts on getting a tuner for the bike? Right now, I’m leaning heavily towards skipping it and staying with the Indian calibration. Fire away!...
 

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To tell the truth the Indian flash is not horrible
Actually I had stage 1 flash and it ran decent. We did put a PV3 tuner on and have Craig B tune and was also mentioned the original flash stage 1 wasn't bad.
With the aftermarket tune the engine does run different and pulls harder then it did with the Indian tune for sure.
Will you be happy with the Indian correct flash? Absolutely and the engine should run well.
Also have heard several times where the EPA has its fingers in and the engines run lean with Indian tune
That doesn't seem to be true
 

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Too much what if's. Come back with what your dealer has to say about what flash is currently on the ECU. After that there are members here that will be happy to offer suggestions.

As far as stage 2, if the bike has the stage 2 cams, the erratic idle would be a dead give away.
 

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"The VIN pull doesn’t show any info on work the dealership did to the bike; it looks like the tech never updated the system.".... These are the people you're going to trust?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
"The VIN pull doesn’t show any info on work the dealership did to the bike; it looks like the tech never updated the system.".... These are the people you're going to trust?
Dealership in El Paso, TX sold the bike/failed to push notes to the VIN in the system. The dealership I’m using is in Annapolis, MD. I’m very confident in this shop. I’ve done some due diligence before picking this particular dealership over the local independent shops and competing Indian dealerships in the area.


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I installed the Dobeck tuner on my 15 RM and after riding for 60K without noticing any difference in performance I removed the Dobeck without telling my GF. First trip in 100 degrees she asked why is my right foot so hot. I could tell a big difference in temp on the right leg too. Dobeck is back on for good.
 
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I stopped by an Indian dealer yesterday to see if they had any aftermarket headers w/o CATs and sure enough, they have a set of Fuel Motto Jackpots. I was hoping to get a set of those or TAB Performance headers. Since the dealership had the Jackpots in stock, I scheduled the install. In the past, this is something I’d do myself, but I now live in an apartment and no longer have the tools or space to do the install myself. Thanks Hurricane Michael!

Back on point. While talking with the parts desk, I asked if they do any tuning or carry any of the aftermarket tuners. One of the service technicians was at the parts desk at the time and both the parts salesman and the service tech recommended staying away from tuners if I wasn’t going to be hammering the bike for top speeds or acceleration. In short, they said Indian is constantly pushing bulletins to the techs about staying away from tuners due to the how much wear the adjustments to air:fuel ratios put on the engines. In short, they recommended staying with the stock tune/calibration reflash done by Indian if I don’t plan on racing the bike and want longevity out of the engine.

I’m getting rid of the stock headers to decrease the heat coming off the right side. With as big and heavy as this bike is, I have no intentions of pounding it and I’m not worried about top speeds or torque. I find the bike plenty fast enough and quick enough for my liking. The reason I asked about a tune was to make sure the air:fuel ratio is properly balanced since I’m altering the exhaust setup by changing the headers.

Some info about the bike; it’s a 2018 Roadmaster. The bike already has Stage 1 and I’m uncertain about whether the Stage 2 cams have been installed. The shop is going to check the ECU to see if it’s been reflashed with the Stage 2 calibration card when they do the header install. I bought the bike used with less than 1,000 miles on it and the previous owner bought it new from the dealership after they dumped a bunch of upgrades into it. He has no idea what was done to the bike, buying it because he liked way it looks and didn’t do anything to it besides break it in. The VIN pull doesn’t show any info on work the dealership did to the bike; it looks like the tech never updated the system.

Given what the shop said and what I’m looking for with swapping the headers, what are your thoughts on getting a tuner for the bike? Right now, I’m leaning heavily towards skipping it and staying with the Indian calibration. Fire away!...


First of all the statement that aftermarket tunes will reduce the longevity of the bike are flat out lies. But what is true, is a aftermarket tune done improperly could have negative consequences.

That being said, Tunes from established companies like Fuel Moto, Dynojet, Lloydz, and CraigB will actually help with the longevity of your bike. The bike is actually safer with these tunes and will be less likely to throw error codes due to throttle mis-match or misfire. So yes getting a custom tune from Joe Blow could be an issue, but he companies above, your engine will thank you.

The factory tunes are designed to pass EPA and Euro emissions. This means setting the ignition timing very high into detonation area at the low mid power band to try and burn all the fuel off. Also the factory tunes are excessively rich in the open loop high power band, this causes the cat to run excessively hot.

Dealer don't constantly get notifications on staying away from aftermarket tunes. What they are told though, is not to do them because that violates EPA law, and the last thing Indian needs is dealers getting busted by the EPA.
 

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Baron 58 beat me to the punch. Of course Indian doesn’t want you using any aftermarket ANYTHING! Since you mentioned Hurricane Michael, I am wondering if it was the Tallahassee or PCB dealer that told you that bit of misinformation. Red Hills Powersports has always been great to me, but we’ve never discussed mods. I do my own research.
PCB Indian has a whole group of customers and techs that have become experts on the PVCX and PX3 tuners.
Get in touch with their IMRG and you will get more tuner information and truth than you can process.
I’ve been using a PVCX for about 40,000 miles. Before that, I had the Dobeck. Nearly 84,000 trouble free miles on my 2014 Chieftain.
 

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Baron 58 beat me to the punch. Of course Indian doesn’t want you using any aftermarket ANYTHING! Since you mentioned Hurricane Michael, I am wondering if it was the Tallahassee or PCB dealer that told you that bit of misinformation. Red Hills Powersports has always been great to me, but we’ve never discussed mods. I do my own research.
PCB Indian has a whole group of customers and techs that have become experts on the PVCX and PX3 tuners.
Get in touch with their IMRG and you will get more tuner information and truth than you can process.
I’ve been using a PVCX for about 40,000 miles. Before that, I had the Dobeck. Nearly 84,000 trouble free miles on my 2014 Chieftain.
What’s your opinion on TIER1TUNERS.COM ?
I’ll install it in my RM 2016 together with K&N air filter, rest will remain stock.

Thanks


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I read this post with great interest. Having recently bought a used 2016 RM that was fitted with freedom true duals and a voodoo air cleaner, I was interested if any tuning had been performed following the modifications. Dealer records indicated a Stage 1 flash only. Bike was put on a dyno and reported as running "lean". I opted for a PV3 and dyno tune at a cost of around $500, done by a local Indian dealer. Got bike back, and after driving 100 miles on it - great drieabilty and solid midrange punch. I did observe that there was a new "lag" in the throttle, which made shifting a little sloppy unlike before the tune. I also noticed that the bike seemed to run hotter.... at least my right leg said so. Bike goes back to the dealer on Tuesday to address these concerns. I covered this in another post, and will respond there when I get the bike back.
 

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Okay so a lot of good info on here but I might make a few recommendations and comments .... Tuners do not hurt These bikes one bit if done correctly and will always result in lower eng/exh temps if tuned properly ... The indian recalibration downloads are designed for Indian accy's including leaving the cat in place ... One more thing ... You're lucky yours is a 2018 and not newer ... Any Indian with a ride mode selection creates a whole new set of tuning issues because of the advanced AI component in the ECU ... So .... All manufacturers downloads are constrained by the EPA ... They all have to have an actual running AFR of "Stoic Value" of approx 14.7 to 1 ... That is the theoretical AFR that leaves the most minimal percentage of unburned fuel after combustion .... Internal combustion engines make the most power between 12.3 and 12.8 AFR ....Quite a difference .... If you remove the cat and go with True Duels or a two into one a tuner is going to be required to get you bike to the recommended AFR ... I put a lot of Dobeck Controllers on these bikes and they run great right out of the box without a dyno tune ... Dobeck Private labels there controllers for many people including us .. Loyd's uses a private label Dobeck controller just to give you an idea how many people recommend this product .. Just tell 'em to set it up like they do for "Holeshot" with the matrix file for the increased airflow of the cat removal .... You won't be disappointed ... The Dyno Jet tuners are also excellent and if bought from the right speed shop have great Plug and Play results ... I also do a clean install of the ECU software before installing any tuners ... This typically alleviates any throttle lag issues some people encounter .... Especially true on 2019 and later Indians with a Ride Mode selection ... Hope this helps ....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Lots of good info from you guys on the topic. I appreciate y’all taking the time to respond. From what I’m gathering, it sounds like:

1. My local Indian shop is recommending to stay clear of a tune because it’s not something Indian can profit from.
2. A good tune won’t hurt the engine.
3. A good tune is likely to help maximize the amount of heat that can be decreased by going cat-less.
4. Dobeck is highly recommended for what I’m looking for.

I certainly welcome any further opinions on the matter, even if they are dissenting opinions.


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I don’t know anything about these. Sorry.
So .... They are basically an "optimizer" They look at Crankshaft speed and acceleration of the crankshaft and adj fuel injection dwell to try and make it spin faster ... I've never personally run one but I have talked with the owner about them a few months ago .. His Theory was sound and doesn't sound to far fetched to me ... I know a guy running one on his Scout and he swears by it ... Also the same guy that makes custom 3D printed custom airboxes etc ...
 
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