[rpsibew110]

I figured out why my bike now and then throws a "low voltage at the ABS sensor" when starting my bike. I believe stage 3 cams are compression release. And so when I shut off the bike and its very close to TDC on a compression stroke and upon restarting it the engine will finish the compression stroke without the release. The engine stops just for a very brief moment and then cranks and starts. At this point of hesitation with the starter engaged it draws heavily on the battery dropping the voltage below the 12.6 volts thus telling the ECU to stop sending voltage to the ABS system and throwing the code.

 

[Baron58]

That’s exactly why, all the bikes throw a ABS code during start in cold weather or the higher compression engines when the batt voltage drops

 

[Eeyore]

I figured out why my bike now and then throws a "low voltage at the ABS sensor" when starting my bike. I believe stage 3 cams are compression release. And so when I shut off the bike and its very close to TDC on a compression stroke and upon restarting it the engine will finish the compression stroke without the release. The engine stops just for a very brief moment and then cranks and starts. At this point of hesitation with the starter engaged it draws heavily on the battery dropping the voltage below the 12.6 volts thus telling the ECU to stop sending voltage to the ABS system and throwing the code.

My 116 has been doing that on every startup since day one of the 116 install two years ago. This "hesitation" and often subsequent kickback has ate two starters and starter gear on my bike. They have replaced the Stg 3 cams as they thought maybe the compression releases were not working properly (no change) and have replaced several batteries and starter relays

Now that my bike is close to out of warranty, Indian has been no help and states this is normal . They tell me now I should run the 15w60 oil as that will help...

 

[virginiaJim]

I'm running the 116 with stage 1/2 and using the 15w60 oil and it still has that hesitation you mention. This is on my 2020 RM. I think that hesitation you speak of is caused by the stage 2 cam.

 

[rpsibew110]

I'm running the 116 with stage 1/2 and using the 15w60 oil and it still has that hesitation you mention. This is on my 2020 RM. I think that hesitation you speak of is caused by the stage 2 cam.

The 116 at least the stg 3 BBK has higher compression which would cause the hesitation as the starter has to work harder to get around the compression stroke. Yes, they are compression release but does it work when the piston stops before TDC on a compression stroke?

 

[virginiaJim]

Maybe that pause is the release releasing? It did on the 111 as well with me.

 

[Riviera1973]

My 116 has been doing that on every startup since day one of the 116 install two years ago. This "hesitation" and often subsequent kickback has ate two starters and starter gear on my bike. They have replaced the Stg 3 cams as they thought maybe the compression releases were not working properly (no change) and have replaced several batteries and starter relays

Now that my bike is close to out of warranty, Indian has been no help and states this is normal . They tell me now I should run the 15w60 oil as that will help...

I also have the same problem after the 116 install, my dealer sold me a new starter trying to fix it with no luck, I tried a different battery with no luck also, on a really hot say it acts up the worst, I've been living with it because I understand why it's happening just like you due to too high ratio. Put the stock tune back in and same issue also. Runs great other than that.
My dealers kind of play stupid with me and honestly your the only guy who said it like it was.

 

[Ace22]

I have followed the start up issue prior to my own installation a month ago. I have the same issue, especially cold start combined with a knock sensor error. I will be returning to the dealer for the 500 mile oil change with the new kit, and will probably have the knock sensor wire replaced.

There may be some hope at the end of the month with FM/Craig’s updated tune.

 

[Eeyore]

I also have the same problem after the 116 install, my dealer sold me a new starter trying to fix it with no luck, I tried a different battery with no luck also, on a really hot say it acts up the worst, I've been living with it because I understand why it's happening just like you due to too high ratio. Put the stock tune back in and same issue also. Runs great other than that.
My dealers kind of play stupid with me and honestly your the only guy who said it like it was.

I told myself I would never post a long winded rant they never solve anything. But seeing Riviera's post, I thought I would tell the rest of the story....

...After almost two years working thru the dealer, I opened a case directly with Indian about three months ago, trying to get some resolution before my two year warranty runs out. I gave them a pass for over two months because the case rep said they were run over with all the Challenger issues on the heals of the FTR issues (which I also experienced). I am patient (although I would hate to see the total time my bike has spent in the shop), so I waited, about month ago I get an email that Indian wanted me to provide survey input on my resolved case. What resolved case? WTF!!!!! Who, what, where, when, how was it resolved, no contact with me, bike has had nothing done to it in 6 months.

Called the dealer, in their files is a note from Indian to tell the customer that the bike operates normally, 116s are hard to start when cold and the kickback is acceptable starter backlash, and run 15w60 oil. Really.... I went home and immediately recorded a video of the bike starting and kicking back several times on cold start, temp was 45f outside and sent it to the dealer asking them to get my case reopened...

Fast forward to earlier this week, dealer told me Indian has a "new" ECM tune for my bike that will fix the problem (I believe it is 116 mechanical issues not a tune issue, the 111 prior to 116 ran great for 400 miles). They loaded it and it started normally at the dealers shop, so Indian is claiming success. The problem, it is 60F-70F in their shop and I normally experience most of the start problems with 50F and below. So, yesterday morning around 5am, I go to my shop, which was 52F (not as cold as I would like for testing), and guess what, it kicks back once and on the second attempt sputters to life. I would say it is not fixed... but I am sure Indian would say that is normal. Now that warm weather is approaching with lows in the 50s, I will likely have to wait till next winter to make my case again.

BTW- My warranty expired 3/10/20...

I wish I had never bought the 116 kit, it has caused more problems than any benefit I thought it provided. I have owned 4 Indian bikes over the past 3 years and was trying to make a deal on a 5th bike this month as this saga was playing out, not sure with the Scout, 116 and FTR issues I have experienced and now the Challenger issues out there that I need another Indian to fight... I have been a loyal supporter (a bit of a fan boy) of Indian (even owned a Victory prior to Indian), very active IMRG member (held all the officer positions in my local chapter), supported national rides, etc. All I want is for Indian to recognize there is an issue and either fix my bike to operate normally or make it right by mutually agreeably resolution. I guess I will keep wishing...

Sorry for the long winded rant... off my soapbox now.

 

[hamador1]

My 2020 SF DH has the 116 motor standard and no issues with a cold start as described above. Was thinking of doing the 116 upgrade on my 2016 DH but perhaps not if this is one of the issues that seems to come with that upgrade. Pretty lame outcome for spending that kind of $$$$...

 

[Riviera1973]

My 2020 SF DH has the 116 motor standard and no issues with a cold start as described above. Was thinking of doing the 116 upgrade on my 2016 DH but perhaps not is this is one of the issues that seems to come with that upgrade. Pretty lame outcome for spending that kind of $$$$...

I did some research and in 2020 Indian Chief models have a different starter part #, it might be a higher torque starter not sure and I don't know if it will work in older bikes. I did not research the gears as being different as of yet, I also remember Lloyd's having a high torque starter for our bikes as well but haven't actually researched that either fully, I've hear people say they had failure in the drive gears for the starter also

 

[rpsibew110]

My 116 has been doing that on every startup since day one of the 116 install two years ago. This "hesitation" and often subsequent kickback has ate two starters and starter gear on my bike. They have replaced the Stg 3 cams as they thought maybe the compression releases were not working properly (no change) and have replaced several batteries and starter relays

Now that my bike is close to out of warranty, Indian has been no help and states this is normal . They tell me now I should run the 15w60 oil as that will help...

Look at this post #213 He mentions a new idea on a bike that pauses at startup. I think it is a valid point.

 

[Riviera1973]

Look at this post #213 He mentions a new idea on a bike that pauses at startup. I think it is a valid point.

Put your bike in 2nd gear and rock it back off the compression stroke, hit the starter button and it will start with no delay in cranking because when rock it back your moving the engine off the compression stroke, I was told to do this by a dealer who has installed a whole bunch of the 116 kits who has had multiple customer complaints about the bikes not starting at times, also another member on here had made that suggestion and was told the same thing, I'm on my 3rd starter and 3rd battery and this absolutely is the fix for this problem. The starter motor they use is not adequate for the extra compression ratio increase added during the installation of the big bore kit, perhaps one day I will try a starter motor from a 2020 Indian with the 116, but until then I can say the chance of ruining starter motors and batteries is not a problem anymore

 

[Eeyore]

Look at this post #213 He mentions a new idea on a bike that pauses at startup. I think it is a valid point.

Yep, good points indeed, some of the same things I have been pushing Indian to check for a few years now, batt good and starter good according to Indian, so interesting that lifters are mentioned in the other thread as Indian is replacing my lifters and push-rods to see if that makes a difference... Will let you know if that helps....