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The only ecu’s that I know that learn your habits are automatic transmissions.

The trottle by wire tables are static. Each gear may have a different table in each riding mode, but they don’t “learn”...

(sorry)
 

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I'm with you, @Max Kool I think the "learning" belief comes from confusion/assumptions about the operational differenes between closed/open loop ECM and TCM "adaptations".
 

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If this was for me, I got the Challenger at Indian Motorcycles of Charlotte. Great experience so far with them.
Sorry. I meant that for Moto Max, who claims the ECU learns your throttle habits and wanted to know where someone who said it doesn’t got their info. I want to know where he got his info that it does.
 

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Sorry. I meant that for Moto Max, who claims the ECU learns your throttle habits and wanted to know where someone who said it doesn’t got their info. I want to know where he got his info that it does.
I'll share where I got my info from. But first I'd like to hear the response from the other party... I asked first. ;)
 

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I'll share where I got my info from. But first I'd like to hear the response from the other party... I asked first. ;)
So you could prove your case but you won't share the info until the guy you think is wrong shares his (which, if you're correct, doesn't exist). Got it.

Being coy about it doesn't help your cause.
 

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So you could prove your case but you won't share the info until the guy you think is wrong shares his (which, if you're correct, doesn't exist). Got it.

Being coy about it doesn't help your cause.
Doesn't help the other guys case either, to just say no it doesn't.

But sure, here's why I will say it does... While working the service and parts department for 5 years at the #1 Indian dealership in SW region. The head of tech services, whom we contact via personal cellphone (my boss/friend had a very close working relationship with) told us over speakerphone. That's what I have to go from. Maybe someone here works at BOSCH or perhaps someone will even call up BOSCH and find out otherwise. But the head of Indian tech service's never gave me a reason to doubt what he was saying over the course of those years. We've had customers with throttle issues early on (low mileage) and we have had to tell them the same thing. They never came back to tell us it didn't work. Maybe they went to other dealers. Probably not though due to to next closest dealer being 2hrs away and they would still come in for other services and accessories.
 

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I had throttle lag big time and it drove me crazy. The reflash cured it completely. I don't think running a " dry gas" additive would do any harm either.
 

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It seems like the argument is centered around the idea of the ECU "learning" (throttle inputs). Again, I'll stand by my earlier comment of confusion about how these systems work and the complexity of "learning throttle input behavior" would introduce to a system like this. I'd go for learning stoichiometric measurements, data from knock sensors, temp sensors and other items but "learning throttle input behavior of the human" seems like a VERY complex and unnecessary subsystem for Fuel Injection map-- and if they were doing that, it would seem like something that they would want to brag about, because it would be bleeding edge.
 

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I like and understand that thought. Again, I am only repeating what I have been told by the only person at Indian who never gave us a reason to doubt him. Everyone else at Indian corporate tech services and dealer support steered me and my boss wrong. Which is why we had his personal number.
 

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I think that's where the confusion comes in, splitting hairs over "learning." Holeshot Mike seemed to indicate that after a flash the bike did some "learning" for the first 50 mile or so. That probably means it's just understanding the inputs.
 
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I think that's where the confusion comes in, splitting hairs over "learning." Holeshot Mike seemed to indicate that after a flash the bike did some "learning" for the first 50 mile or so. That probably means it's just understanding the inputs.

The learning you speak of is not what most here think it is. The ECU does not look at the way you ride the bike, throttle response, shit patterns, etc.

This is what happens. The O2 sensors send voltage signals to the ECU during closed loop operations to let the ECU if the mixture is leaner or richer than 14.7.1. The ECU then adjusts the A/F ratio accordingly. If the ECU had to constantly adjust the A/F ratio all the time, the bike would not run well and the mileage would suck.

So this is what happens. The ECU records this data and comes up with 2 tables, Short Term and Long Term fuel trims, these are basically average A/F ratios that were recorded and setup based on load and others factors. The ECU references these tables first to set the A/F mixture in closed loop. The more data or time on the bike, the more accurate these tables are, thus minimizing the ECU's need to constantly adjust the A/F ratio.

The statement ride the bike 50 - 100 miles is so the ECU can record enough data to have more accurate fuel trims.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
So, I took the bike in yesterday and described the issue. The tech was unable to duplicate it (obviously) and they said that the throttle body sync issue did not apply to my VIN. The service manager said they had another Challenger in the back with the same issues. Unfortunately I could not leave my bike with them, but they said if they get the other Challenger fixed they will give me a call. They also created a ticket with Indian for whatever that is worth.

I will continue to pursue a fix, but it's not bothering me enough to have the best part of the riding season spent with the bike in the shop!
 

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So, I took the bike in yesterday and described the issue. The tech was unable to duplicate it (obviously) and they said that the throttle body sync issue did not apply to my VIN. The service manager said they had another Challenger in the back with the same issues. Unfortunately I could not leave my bike with them, but they said if they get the other Challenger fixed they will give me a call. They also created a ticket with Indian for whatever that is worth.

I will continue to pursue a fix, but it's not bothering me enough to have the best part of the riding season spent with the bike in the shop!

It shouldn't matter or not if the VIN number doesn't pull up the throttle sync TSB. They should be check regardless, because the throttles can go out of sync. Or be bad. In the metric world, multiple throttle bodies have been used FOREVER, syncing the throttles is standard procedure at every maintenance interval.
 

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Had the chance to take a ride today. Let the bike warm up over 3 minutes (140 degrees), no throttle input until then. Bike was in standard mode and a lot of throttle lag like I experienced before. After testing it for several miles and no change, I switched to sport mode. There was still a lag, but not as pronounced. Hope there is a fix soon since I have an appointment at the dealer in 3 weeks for it.
 

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Update: finally had a service appointment today after eating a month t get this looked at. My Tech said my throttle bodies were, in fact, out of synch. He re-synch and it’s way better, not perfect, but I didn’t think I was going to die. Here is what he told me to do if they get out of synch again: kill switch off. Power switch on and don’t touch anything for about 35 seconds (actually, until you no longer hear anything from the bike). Then power switch off. Wait a few seconds, power switch back on, don’t touch anything for three minutes. Power switch off again, and the next time you ride, it should be in synch. Waiting the one minute, like the manual says to wait after starting, before you do anything else is the key, according to him. Hope that helps someone.
 

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thanks, at least now we know how to resync throttle bodies if we ever have to.. I always thought it was much more involved than that... :unsure:
 
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