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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I know I many of you want these features, and I can't begrudge you your preferences, but small bikes aren't suited to them.

Gear indication is just not necessary, neither really is a tachometer (well, a tacho can be very helpful, but the indicator is unnecessary). If you use the clutch well and feel the bike you'll be okay. Large bikes have more mass and big engines so they might benefit from an indicator, but small bikes are versatile enough that you can afford to feel the right gear position. It's simply more work to try and match speed to gear than just feel the throttle response and adjust accordingly.

Fuel gauges aren't needed for 150 mile tanks. There's no halfway to worry about. You either have more fuel than the minimum to get to a nearby station, or you don't. For highway touring you'd be stuck planning frequent trips and be very on top of it. For city driving, you have a station near when the light comes on. Having a 3/4 indication guiding which side route to take would not be helpful with such a small tank.

ABS is the least needed feature. Stopping a bike is one a few critical biking skills that everyone needs to have and practice. Small bikes don't have the mass to necessitate ABS. If you stop correctly you won't skid very far. It's a matter of having the skills and driving sense to do that.
 

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I disagree on ABS. With ABS you shouldn't skid at all which is better than skidding as you maintain more control.

Regardless brakes and stopping power needs to be correlated to engine power. I have a Judge which is small and light. But the 106 motor is set up for major HP. I wish I had dual discs in front and ABS. More than once I've locked up the rear and skidded.

I ride to work every day it doesn't rain. Average about 22K-24K miles per year on a bike. I practice improving my skills every day. And I wish my smaller bike had ABS.
 

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I agree with wishing for ABS. Back when it came out on cars I didn't think much about it but was very happy when it saved me from an accident. I had a HD heritage that sure could have used it. On power stops it was not fun. Now I commute on a yamaha FZ09 with no ABS and it stops on a dime. I haven't had it in too much rain but that is when I would like to have ABS.
 

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The only reason there is no ABS and other features on this bike is purely a cost saving measure by Indian to say that there is no need for ABS is wrong .

For $18,000 + cost we pay here in Oz i want up to date safety features and proper tyres and suspension for my money to say there is no need for ABS because you know how to ride a bike well is a bit tongue in cheek me thinks .
 

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Never had a Gear Indicator other than a Green Light for 6th Gear before bought my 2012 Cross Country and will admit it spoiled me but am sure I can live without it .. Fuel gauge just kind of used as a reference anyway as out of 4-5 Bikes that had them only one was truly close to being spot on accurate so used my mileage for a reference anyway .. ABS is a good thing but with 40 years of riding without ABS think my braking skills can handle it .. The Price of the Scout is what enticed me to try this route as i usually like having a smaller 2nd ride around to go with my Main Touring type for the long haul .. Time will tell if made the right decision with a Scout, but was well aware of what it has and what it doesn't, so if have complaints about it will not be these 3 ..
 

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It didn't bother me that the new Scout I ordered didn't have a tach, ABS, gas gauge or gear indicator because after many decades of riding, I never had them anyway. I once had a VFR with ABS, but not sure it was worth the price. The option to have ABS (not an option in other countries) should be available to those who want it and are willing to pay the upcharge. Same goes for a tach and gas gauge...can't say if a gear indicator is an option or not since the engineering would have to be applied to all bike produced anyway. I think that somebody here indicated that ABS will be offered on the Scout here once it becomes mandatory in all the EU countries.
 

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Maybe a retro style gas gage in the filler cap. Or a trip meter.. I think they have a low gas light right? Same as a reserve...
Abs with traction control...I'm sure there are situations that it could save your butt.
Like getting on a curved freeway ramp
Where the guys radiator overflowed to the street (coolant is like ice) and your on the throttle hard..
 

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The only reason there is no ABS and other features on this bike is purely a cost saving measure by Indian to say that there is no need for ABS is wrong .

For $18,000 + cost we pay here in Oz i want up to date safety features and proper tyres and suspension for my money to say there is no need for ABS because you know how to ride a bike well is a bit tongue in cheek me thinks .
aussie scout will have ABS , yes and I want ABS and I have been riding for about 36 years
 

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I think something like a low tire pressure alert light would be more useful to me, but what do I know?
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think something like a low tire pressure alert light would be more useful to me, but what do I know?
Exactly my point! The way you ride a small bike, all these conveniences just make the bike seem like something more than it is, uncessarily. I have heard Scout's fuel light comes on with very little time left before empty. That's not really helpful. I don't need a gauge to tell me 80 miles on my odo is half the tank. I need the save so I don't run out of gas.

Yes, we're supposed to check our tire pressures, but the convenience would be nice. This is totally different than ABS which changes how you control the bike. If you jam the brakes wrong on a bike you need to practice that more. If you're riding too close to stop within your comfort zone, you need to ease it back some. Extreme defensiveness is part of riding a bike and I don't think ABS by itself is going to replace good riding. I get ABS for really heavy vehicles, because you're dealing with more mass than can be 'felt' in a stop. You can skid a small bike and stop well.

Anyway, I'm not against these three features. I'm just trying to make a point, to kill time, that these are all superfluous conveniences. If you really want them, you should be able to get them someday. But, you should also think about the fact that with a bike of Scout's size, you can make do just fine without them. Other features might be more important - like a proper tacho, or a fuel light that turns on earlier, or a larger tank.

I guess, Scout's price point doesn't make it that Indian we can all afford. It really is a different beast from its older brothers. Sometimes I feel like people don't absorb that fact. Which is only a concern of mine because I don't want anyone to be disappointed when they take Scout touring.

I actually plan to long-haul with Scout, but I'm young and I'm gonna do it alone and on shorter hauls.
 

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I'm with ROBSMST, I ride highway to work and ABS is a must for me. I used it twice because of nit wits on cell phones . I locked up my Road king a couple years ago and I thought the back end was coming around to meet the front. Not a good feeling.
 

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Gear indication is just not necessary, neither really is a tachometer (well, a tacho can be very helpful, but the indicator is unnecessary). If you use the clutch well and feel the bike you'll be okay. Large bikes have more mass and big engines so they might benefit from an indicator, but small bikes are versatile enough that you can afford to feel the right gear position. It's simply more work to try and match speed to gear than just feel the throttle response and adjust accordingly.

Fuel gauges aren't needed for 150 mile tanks. There's no halfway to worry about. You either have more fuel than the minimum to get to a nearby station, or you don't. For highway touring you'd be stuck planning frequent trips and be very on top of it. For city driving, you have a station near when the light comes on. Having a 3/4 indication guiding which side route to take would not be helpful with such a small tank.

ABS is the least needed feature. Stopping a bike is one a few critical biking skills that everyone needs to have and practice. Small bikes don't have the mass to necessitate ABS. If you stop correctly you won't skid very far. It's a matter of having the skills and driving sense to do that.
Your description bluesky is for shift indication and that's entirely different from gear indication. There is this idea on the forum that a gear indicator is suppose to "tell the rider when to shift" that's not what a gear indicator does.

Fuel gauge or "miles to empty" costs NOTHING to add, pennies on the dollar and should be standard issue and accurate. Car and motorcycle companies have been doing this for years.

I disagree on the ABS comment. I like it and think it should be standard especially since the rest of the world is getting it. I've had a few situations myself where a car came out of nowhere and I feel the ABS saved my body and my bike. Sometimes no amount of experience can save you from somebody else stupidity or lack of attention.

All that said, "to each their own". At the end of the day we all have wants and the Scout fits most of those wants and the aftermarket can supply the rest.

Cheers - Allan
 

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I'm going to disagree...
My current bike is an FZ-09 which has a gear indicator, fuel gauge and tach. I love having these features. I have lived without them and have been fine, but having experienced these options, I would want them on any future bike
 
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I have to agree with the OP, the bike doesn't *need* those items, or else we wouldnt buy the bike. The Scout needs rims, needs handlebar, needs engine, doesnt need ABS, fuel gauge, gear indicator.

Could use... Now that is a different story.
 
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Never having owned a bike with ABS, fuel gauge, or gear indicator I won't miss them on the Scout. Would they be nice options? Probably. Am I going to complain that they aren't there? No. I'll just ride like I've always ridden: by the seat of my pants, paying attention to the mileage, feeling the revs, and braking in such a way that I maintain a high degree of control. Someday I may own a bike with these other features, and at that point I may decide that they are an integral part of riding. Until then they aren't a determining factor in which bike I buy or ride.
 

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One of the issues that arise with ABS lies with dealers that don't want to order bikes with ABS (when it is optional). For example, I have owned a Honda VFR and upgraded to the newest VFR since they were introduced (I haven't ordered the re-introduced just announced...yet). When ABS was made an option, I had to order one from my dealer because he would not stock ABS bikes with the required price increase. I remember he told me that his customers were just not willing to pay the difference. I have since moved 600 miles away and now have a different dealer and guess what...he doesn't stock ABS bikes unless they are standard equipment, and for the same reason. I like ABS and would have it if offered as either standard or optional equipment, but I think the dealers (at least those I know) just don't want to drive customers away because of price...I'd prefer having a choice on the showroom floor.
 

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I disagree on the ABS comment. I like it and think it should be standard especially since the rest of the world is getting it.

All that said, "to each their own". At the end of the day we all have wants and the Scout fits most of those wants and the aftermarket can supply the rest.
These two paragraphs are incompatible. "I think it should be standard" is the opposite of "To each his own".

Besides that, how the rest of the world chooses to over-regulate itself is no logical reason to do so ourselves. As Mom used to say, "Just because everyone else jumps off a cliff doesn't mean you have to."

I have had two bikes with ABS. Still have one. Works great. My R1200CLC will stop on a dime and give you eight and a half cents change with two fingers squeeze and a toe tip down. Fabulous. Anyone who thinks their skill will stop as quickly is full of it. But... I don't think the ability to stop so readily makes riders any safer. What you forget is the human factor. Men will push the envelope, whatever that envelope is. Think back when you were young. Given weak fast fading front drum brakes back in those salad days, we stayed well behind the bumper in front of us. Plenty space was our envelope. No longer. Given powerful disc brakes on crotch rockets these days, your typical yoot hugs the bumper in front of him. Three feet is their envelope. I am candid enough to admit I ride the same way. When I ride my KLR, a beast infamous for weakass brakes, I ride much more cautiously, stay way back, watch each intersection and driveway like a hawk. When I ride my CLC, I feel like I am nowhere near so circumspect.

This is very similar to the helmet argument. There is no doubt you'll hurt your skull less wearing a hard hat. There's no doubt in my mind you will ride much more cautiously without one. I know I ride far more sedately in August with no lid than I do in November with full-face and leather.

Brake performance is only half the performance. You have to add in the rider knowing what his bike can do. I am very suspicious of gizmo solutions to human problems.

Don't try to tell me you ride just as carefully regardless of gear. We're none of us superman, neither physically nor mentally. And don't give me examples such as "If I hadn't had ABS on such and such a day I would not be here today." Without ABS that would flat out have been a different day. Both these types of common arguments are spurious as the day is long.

Combined with the added expense and maintenance, and the sudden danger when failure does occur, I can easily see a flip side to the ABS argument.

I am not making the argument that I would not want ABS. I would. I am only making the argument that making it standard may not make you safer.
 

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Your description bluesky is for shift indication and that's entirely different from gear indication. There is this idea on the forum that a gear indicator is suppose to "tell the rider when to shift" that's not what a gear indicator does.

Fuel gauge or "miles to empty" costs NOTHING to add, pennies on the dollar and should be standard issue and accurate. Car and motorcycle companies have been doing this for years.

I disagree on the ABS comment. I like it and think it should be standard especially since the rest of the world is getting it. I've had a few situations myself where a car came out of nowhere and I feel the ABS saved my body and my bike. Sometimes no amount of experience can save you from somebody else stupidity or lack of attention.

All that said, "to each their own". At the end of the day we all have wants and the Scout fits most of those wants and the aftermarket can supply the rest.

Cheers - Allan
Okay I give up. Gauges and indicators are needed. Here you go Mr. Brown:

 

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These two paragraphs are incompatible. "I think it should be standard" is the opposite of "To each his own".
Whatever webmost.

The "to each his own" is basically a "if you want X that's okay with me". My opinion is that I think it should be standard. It's an opinion and like most opinions everyone has one and not everybody agrees.

If someone out here wants ape bars, cool! Go for it. Not something I want nor do I think it is stupid. Go for it! Cool! Enjoy! Have fun with it. I'd like to see it because maybe I'd go "yeah, that's pretty cool!"

There is stuff you and I don't agree on and there is stuff we do agree on. A good cigar, Scouts, and quirky behavior of BMW motorcycles. I good with that! And you think my gear indicator and fuel gauge stuff is dumb. Okay, I good with that as well.

Peace out! - Allan :)
 
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