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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can anything be done about a surging problem on the 2014 Vintage? For example, if you are in 2nd gear at 2000 rpm's and let off the throttle and watch the rpm's go down to 1100 or 1200, the bike momentarily surges. It does it in all gears except 1st gear. I telephoned my dealer and one of the techs took a Vintage for a ride and that bike did the same thing. I find this extremely irritating when coming into a corner at low speed and the bike surges ahead. Although the surge is momentary, it is extremely irritating.
 

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When you slow down to RPM idle speed, the bike has enough torque to try and maintain idle speed. Drop one more gear and this won`t happen. The first time it happened to me, I was confused also, but the same thing happens in my diesel truck if I stay in gear and try to slow below idle rpm`s.
 

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Welcome to the world of fly by wire. The programming is trying to keep the idle rpm up and blips the throttle. Maybe a bit too much. So far I have adjusted my riding style to not get into engine lugging territory,but later program parameters might be able to fix...or maybe I have a bad habit?
 

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Don't slow down , hammer into them thar corners and get in the wind ... PS the more your on here the less time your in the wind.....LOL
 

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It does it in first gear, too. I noticed it as I was putt-putting into the garage. At first it kind of alarmed me, once I figured out that it was the Fi maintaining the RPMs to keep the bike running, I just adjusted the way I putt-putt.
 

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I call it the "die and lunge". Decelerating, with clutch out, feels like someone hit the kill switch right around 1600rpms and then at 1200 rpms it lunges back to life. Unnerving in 3rd gear, Startling in 2nd and down right Dangerous in 1st gear. I hope this is a "feature" that can be removed as there already is a report of someone dropping the bike because of the lunge at low speed..... don't confuse this with the "Brake Throttle Override" "feature" that also is dangerous. ANY condition that removes throttle control from the operator is unnecessary and Dangerous.... Anyone over at Indian listening??? Apparently a good number of bikes display this behavior....
 

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Noticed this on my road master, and as observed, it seems to occur at times when I'm trying to lug, like first gear around a 180dg corner to my driveway, gotta feather the clutch, just different than my last bike.
 

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I call it the "die and lunge". Decelerating, with clutch out, feels like someone hit the kill switch right around 1600rpms and then at 1200 rpms it lunges back to life. Unnerving in 3rd gear, Startling in 2nd and down right Dangerous in 1st gear. I hope this is a "feature" that can be removed as there already is a report of someone dropping the bike because of the lunge at low speed..... don't confuse this with the "Brake Throttle Override" "feature" that also is dangerous. ANY condition that removes throttle control from the operator is unnecessary and Dangerous.... Anyone over at Indian listening??? Apparently a good number of bikes display this behavior....
Know exactly what you're describing. Someone brought this up previously however that person explained it as a compression release?

I have a somewhat steep hill I frequent and when I let off the throttle #37 decelerates normally and then "boom" it's like freewheeling down the hill. Kind of unnerving when it first happened but now I know just about where it'll take off.

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I have looked extensively in every documentation I can find, as well as inspecting my motor and I have yet to find the fabled compression release. We supposedly have S&S "easy start" cams in our bikes, so maybe that is where the rumor started, or else the compression releases are very well hidden. I also have extensively tested the "die & lunge" event and the best I can figure is that it is electrically operated, possibly by the VCM or ECM. The clutch lever, when pulled, eliminates the condition instantly. There is a switch in the clutch lever which "tells" the bike that the clutch is engaged/disengaged. Try starting the bike in gear... nothing.... pull in clutch lever and she fires up. Logic seems to prove it is electrically operated through the "brains" of our bikes. There is NO federal mandate I can find to require this absolutely dangerous "feature". Since/If it is in the ECM/VCM it should be able to be removed, as should the BTO (Brake/Throttle Override). Hopefully, before more riders get injured & bikes get damaged, Polaris/Indian will offer an update to return throttle control to the operator...... so far mentioning it to Consumer Services and the dealer gets me nowhere.... but I will be yelling it from the rooftops until it is corrected.... any other voices that can join in might be helpful.
 
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Good video. If our bikes have this "Easy Start" cams as rumored, that would NOT cause the "die & lunge" condition as they are centrifugal, meaning they restore compression at a higher RPM only, and would not return to full compression when the RPMs drop again, ie. "die at 1600 & lunge back on at 1200 rpm during deceleration".
 

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Good video. If our bikes have this "Easy Start" cams as rumored, that would NOT cause the "die & lunge" condition as they are centrifugal, meaning they restore compression at a higher RPM only, and would not return to full compression when the RPMs drop again, ie. "die at 1600 & lunge back on at 1200 rpm during deceleration".
I believe the "die & lunge" is the ECM throttling up when engine RPM drops below a predetermined minimum RPM. The "die & lunge" complaints I've read about were low speed maneuvers and the engine was about to stall, different from the deceleration lunge I've encountered. :eek:

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I call it the "die and lunge". Decelerating, with clutch out, feels like someone hit the kill switch right around 1600rpms and then at 1200 rpms it lunges back to life. Unnerving in 3rd gear, Startling in 2nd and down right Dangerous in 1st gear. I hope this is a "feature" that can be removed as there already is a report of someone dropping the bike because of the lunge at low speed..... don't confuse this with the "Brake Throttle Override" "feature" that also is dangerous. ANY condition that removes throttle control from the operator is unnecessary and Dangerous.... Anyone over at Indian listening??? Apparently a good number of bikes display this behavior....
Thank you for your reply to my post on surging. Have you found out any more on this issue?
 

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Even though I've learned to deal with it I don't like the 'Surge' of the throttle by wire. Its as if you're not controlling the throttle (and I guess in reality, you're not).
 

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A team, the dealer in las Vegas did the flash to remove the bot on my 2014 vintage and it took away quite a bit of the throttle problem..
 
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