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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey you riders with Stage 3 116 Cubic Inch Thunder Strokes! I've got a project for you and it's an easy one. Your Stage 3 kit came with a bigger intake manifold and throttle body. If you had the Stage 3 kit installed at the dealer, they should have given you all of the parts that came off of your engine.

Remove your air filter and the throttle body. Replace the throttle body with the smaller one that came stock. Mind you, the exterior size isn't a lot bigger. The BORE of the Stage 3 throttle body is just bigger. The whole swap shouldn't take more than a half hour and you don't have to do anything with the "tune" of the engine. Just swap the big throttle body with the OEM smaller unit and button it back up.

Now take it for a ride. Lots of variety in speeds, steady cruise, stop-n-go, hard sudden throttle, soft mild acceleration... ride it for a while. Then report back HERE with your impressions.

I've done it and I'm keeping mum for now. This is going to be interesting...
 

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Hey you riders with Stage 3 116 Cubic Inch Thunder Strokes! I've got a project for you and it's an easy one. Your Stage 3 kit came with a bigger intake manifold and throttle body. If you had the Stage 3 kit installed at the dealer, they should have given you all of the parts that came off of your engine.

Remove your air filter and the throttle body. Replace the throttle body with the smaller one that came stock. Mind you, the exterior size isn't a lot bigger. The BORE of the Stage 3 throttle body is just bigger. The whole swap shouldn't take more than a half hour and you don't have to do anything with the "tune" of the engine. Just swap the big throttle body with the OEM smaller unit and button it back up.

Now take it for a ride. Lots of variety in speeds, steady cruise, stop-n-go, hard sudden throttle, soft mild acceleration... ride it for a while. Then report back HERE with your impressions.

I've done it and I'm keeping mum for now. This is going to be interesting...
Sounds like you increased the air velocity by reducing the bore.
 

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This is something Lloyd mentioned a while back, and it makes sense. With no head work, I'd guess the added volume of the larger throttle body comes with a low end penalty. Love to see back to back dyno's of this change.
 

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yep. velocity vs volume
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
This is something Lloyd mentioned a while back, and it makes sense. With no head work, I'd guess the added volume of the larger throttle body comes with a low end penalty. Love to see back to back dyno's of this change.
Whatchew mean no head wurk? ;) My cylinder heads are ported. But that's irrelevant in this thread.
 

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I was thinking of the same thing about the Lloydz video. Here's an attachment for the video of anyone wants to watch. Very informative and a good deterrent on buying a 60mm TB that will do zero on adding performance

 

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So I wonder how the Venom Plenom for the 111 compares to the Venom Plenom for the 116 when installed on the 116. The one for the 111 tapers from 60mm at the throttle body to 54mm at the intake which increases the air velocity into the intake. The one for the 116 is 60mm all the way through. And would it be worthwhile to use the 111 54mm intake on the 116 with the 111 Venom Plenum setup? Would like to see some numbers on this for sure.
 

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Whatchew mean no head wurk? ;) My cylinder heads are ported. But that's irrelevant in this topic.
AND the venturi principle has little to do with the Thunder Stroke throttle body, because there is no float bowl from which fuel has to be drawn up. AIR VELOCITY! That's the ticket.
I'm sure some of you have heard of the MotoMan method of break in. Some may not have heard about his Intake Porting Secrets to which this applies.

Excerpt:
756,220 to 1 !!
At the time this article was written in late 2001, when you typed the words "Intake Porting" into the Alta Vista search engine,
you'd find an incredible 756,220 pages related to this topic !! Every one of those pages will tell you the exact opposite of what I'm going to teach you today.
The odds are overwhelmingly against the MotoMan on this one:
That's over Three-Quarters of a Million against 1 !!
(That's not including another 'zillion' books, magazines and other tuners...)
 

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Whatchew mean no head wurk? ;) My cylinder heads are ported. But that's irrelevant in this topic.
AND the venturi principle has little to do with the Thunder Stroke throttle body, because there is no float bowl from which fuel has to be drawn up. AIR VELOCITY! That's the ticket.
Venturi effect has nothing to do with a float bowl. It simply states flow through a line restrictriction raises velocity at the cost of pressure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Venturi effect has nothing to do with a float bowl. It simply states flow through a line restrictriction raises velocity at the cost of pressure.
You are of course correct, Roadkill. I was focusing too much on the venturi's use in a carburetor, in which the drop in pressure is what draws fuel up from the float bowl.
 

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So I wonder how the Venom Plenom for the 111 compares to the Venom Plenom for the 116 when installed on the 116. The one for the 111 tapers from 60mm at the throttle body to 54mm at the intake which increases the air velocity into the intake. The one for the 116 is 60mm all the way through. And would it be worthwhile to use the 111 54mm intake on the 116 with the 111 Venom Plenum setup? Would like to see some numbers on this for sure.
here is the answer I tried it. I thought the same thing for velocity from 60 mm to 54 mm. they lack air on wot
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Stronger low end torque and weaker top end HP? perhaps
Classic method: Smaller intake yields stronger low to mid RPM torque, at the cost of peak RPM horsepower. But how many of us are wringing the Thunder Stroke's neck near or up to redline? How often do you rev it beyond 4000 RPM? Do some research on Ford Windsor vs Cleveland engines, or Kawasaki Eliminator vs Ninja.

OK. The owners of Stage 3 kits aren't trying it out and posting here anyway. You can call me crazy, but the jury is still out on how much it MIGHT loose at the top end, but without dynamometer numbers to put it in visual perspective, I'll take "rear-ended by a cement truck" over "wring it's neck until the rev-limiter kicks-in" any day.

When I swapped the 60mm throttle body out and installed the OEM 54mm unit, the result has been DRAMATIC! Grabbing a handful of throttle anywhere near 2000 RPM is POTENT. And it launches hard to 4000 RPM or more. If it's softer beyond that, I can't tell yet (I'm still doing testing.... when the RAIN STOPS). Truth to tell, for me, the Thunder Stroke models are like classic hot rods; i.e. '57 Chevy, T-Bucket, early V8 Fords, etc. ... I don't give a rats arse what it can do at or near 5000 RPM. But if it launches hard between 1500 & 2000 RPM and keeps accelerating strong up to 4000 RPM, life doesn't get any better than that (with internal combustion anyway).

Bottom line: TORQUE well below 5K RPM rules over peak horsepower. How often do you actually drag race another motorcycle with your 111 or 116 Indian? If you have such a habit you might want to consider something from the Orient or Europe that's more suited to the task.
 

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ok....try this use your vp60 from your 111 on your 116 and ill bet you a beer or 2 it will feel stronger. the added cubes will increase velocity.....bigger isn't always better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I just did lunchtime on the Tail of the Possum (Mill Rd., Manorville, NY) and I have no doubt about it, the OEM throttle body boosts GRUNT! This thing ROCKS where it counts. Grab a handful and it just pulls. If it makes any less peak horsepower, I can't detect it, but my arse-dyno KNOWS that torque is UP.
Next step... swap the Stage 3 intake manifold for the OEM part and it may get even better.
 

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Wouldn't the 60mm TB from the 116 kit perform the same as the VP60?
The VP60 is two components, the Venom Plenom, which is the curved tapered manifold (or plenum) and the 60mm throttle body (which should be the same as the 60mm included with the 116). It is the tapered plenum that increases the velocity. I had dynos done separately with the stage 1 intake and VP intake, both with the stock 54mm throttle body and gained close to 8 hp and 10 torque.
 
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