[WillyH]

2015 Vintage.... If I had a PV3 and had a set of used stage 2 cams installed, would I need a calibration card/reflash from the dealer, or would the PV3 be all I need for a flash/tune?

Edit.... Bike is stock other than stage 1 muffs with fishtails.

Thanks in advance for guru feedback!!

 

[Indian-Corey]

Your still gonna need the card for the Indian tune / flash then you can copy that tune then send it Craig. He will put his touch in it then send it back to you to load.

 

[Dean E]

You don't need the flash from Indian but I would get your PV 3 from Fuel Moto. They have maps that you can start with and then move to Craig to fine tune your ride. I like getting the stage 2 flash because then if you have any issues you can flash back to stock (stage 2) and go back to the dealer for warranty work. Since you have a 2015 warranty probably won't concern you. You don't need to spend the money getting the factory flash for the cams. Dean

 

[Sith Life]

@CraigB1960 can answer this for ya

 

[WillyH]

@CraigB1960 can answer this for ya

Thanks!! I just PM'd CraigB

And thank you also to Indian-Corey and Dean E for chiming in, albeit with two conflicting answers to add to my already confused conflicted mind & thoughts LOL.

 

[Dean E]

Thanks!! I just PM'd CraigB

And thank you also to Indian-Corey and Dean E for chiming in, albeit with two conflicting answers to add to my already confused conflicted mind & thoughts LOL.

Craig can explain it better than I can. You will first download the stock file (the .stk file) from there he will update the ignition curve and AFR to what is needed. The .stk file is the starting point. Once they have that they know how much needs to be changed to get things were they need to be. That is why it is not necessary to do the Indian stage 2 flash before hand. Dean

 

[WillyH]

Craig can explain it better than I can. You will first download the stock file (the .stk file) from there he will update the ignition curve and AFR to what is needed. The .stk file is the starting point. Once they have that they know how much needs to be changed to get things were they need to be. That is why it is not necessary to do the Indian stage 2 flash before hand. Dean

That's what I was thinking. But my ignorance regarding these ECU run bikes always leads to doubts and questions on my end.

All I know about computer related or computer run vehicles is, that I know little to nothing about computer run vehicles Thanks Dean, I appreciate the input!!

 

[cmoalem]

I would say for the stage II cams to run properly you should get the factory stage II flash and go from there with further tuning.

Reason: the definition files which allow for tuning do still not expose all relevant tables. The stage two cams induce a completely different valve opening and closing. IVO and IVC tables I have not seen yet in the Powercore tables.
The stage II factory flash has the right values in those "still hidden" tables.

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[WillyH]

I would say for the stage II cams to run properly you should get the factory stage II flash and go from there with further tuning.

Reason: the definition files which allow for tuning do still not expose all relevant tables. The stage two cams induce a completely different valve opening and closing. IVO and IVC tables I have not seen yet in the Powercore tables.
The stage II factory flash has the right values in those "still hidden" tables.

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Yessir, you nailed it. I PM'd CraigB and that's pretty much what he told me.

Sux to be at the mercy of a dealer and the computers. Hell back in the day I shoved Andrews cams in my old shovels, re-jetted, twisted a couple of screws on the carb, and down the road I'd go. My oh my how times have changed LOL.

 

[Dean E]

Yessir, you nailed it. I PM'd CraigB and that's pretty much what he told me.

Sux to be at the mercy of a dealer and the computers. Hell back in the day I shoved Andrews cams in my old shovels, re-jetted, twisted a couple of screws on the carb, and down the road I'd go. My oh my how times have changed LOL.

Well I will apologize then. My understanding was that with the .stk file the files could be easily adjusted to do what ever you wanted. I know people who had done just that. Dean

 

[WillyH]

Well I will apologize then. My understanding was that with the .stk file the files could be easily adjusted to do what ever you wanted. I know people who had done just that. Dean

Dean - No reason at all to apologize. There is a fine line here, devil in the details so to speak LOL. You were not necessarily wrong. Craig said it is possible to go with the PV3 stage 2 tune alone and the bike would likely run ok. But he also eludes, the PV3 tune alone, would likely not be optimal without the stage 2 I/P flash being done first.... much the same as what cmoalem mentioned. I thank you for your input!!

 

[Indian-Corey]

Dean I think the stk file Craig uses comes from the flash and is put on the card that has the operating parameters such as the opening and closing of the cams on it.

 

[cmoalem]

Dean I think the stk file Craig uses comes from the flash and is put on the card that has the operating parameters such as the opening and closing of the cams on it.

Ok ... read a stk file from a stage II PI flash and save it as djt (with or without changes).
The produced djt
1. Is only compatible with the tunecompat (including checksum part!) of that stk it came from.
2. A compare and copy over of tables to a djt of your stage 0/1 target djt with your tune/chksumcompat will ONLY catch the tables exposed by the definition file. All hidden stuff will not be seen and not be copied over.

Currently there is no way (anymore) for us to flash "alien" stks to our ECU.
Some very early PVCXs were less strict with checks ... but you could potentially brick your ECU if you flash a really alien firmware into it. Those early PVCX versions are long extinct.

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[Kost]

Dean - No reason at all to apologize. There is a fine line here, devil in the details so to speak LOL. You were not necessarily wrong. Craig said it is possible to go with the PV3 stage 2 tune alone and the bike would likely run ok. But he also eludes, the PV3 tune alone, would likely not be optimal without the stage 2 I/P flash being done first.... much the same as what cmoalem mentioned. I thank you for your input!!

Maybe the Indian Dealer that installs your used Stage 2 Indian cams would be willing to flash the Stage 2 cams file to your Vintage? Let us know how this works out Willy! Interested to see a positive outcome and get your Indian Stage 2 cams installed, then tuned by Craig.

 

[bmoore]

This is being done as we speak to my brand new 18 having Indian flash done ,dealer says with new flash I will need anything else, unfortunately will not know til April when I get bike also if I have to custom tune will be the flash for warranty. I can only hope I like the Indian flash, as II will not need more money, This is the most nervous part of stage two for me I do not want my bike to sputter and miss as I have read of the original tune.

 

[cmoalem]

This is being done as we speak to my brand new 18 having Indian flash done ,dealer says with new flash I will need anything else, unfortunately will not know til April when I get bike also if I have to custom tune will be the flash for warranty. I can only hope I like the Indian flash, as II will not need more money, This is the most nervous part of stage two for me I do not want my bike to sputter and miss as I have read of the original tune.

Don't worry ... the factory Stage II flashes got updated by Indian over the years. The early trouble of too much advance/too much engine noise is gone mostly.

Nevertheless: a good PVx tune on top gets you a even better running skoot

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[Dean E]

Don't worry ... the factory Stage II flashes got updated by Indian over the years. The early trouble of too much advance/too much engine noise is gone mostly.

Nevertheless: a good PVx tune on top gets you a even better running skoot

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I had heard other speak of improvements to the later stage 2 flash but I was not sure how much had changed. Hopefully the newer flash is much better. What I got when the stage 2 flash first came out was HORRIBLE! Dean

 

[cmoalem]

I had heard other speak of improvements to the later stage 2 flash but I was not sure how much had changed. Hopefully the newer flash is much better. What I got when the stage 2 flash first came out was HORRIBLE! Dean

Yup ... I was one of the early stage2 adopters. That's when I learned how cool the Powercore Software and PVCX were (and still are!).

A friend of mine did his stage2 upgrade including flash from the dealer sometimes late last year. His stage 2 dealer flash was smooth "out of the box". (Same tunecompat as my ECU ... but different checksum than my earlier craptastic stageII flash.)

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[high plains rider]

OK so maybe I'm not understanding things... so I have a question... if a guy went to the aftermarket air cleaner and pipes... then went to the factory stage II cams... would the factory stage II flash account for all?

 

[Dean E]

OK so maybe I'm not understanding things... so I have a question... if a guy went to the aftermarket air cleaner and pipes... then went to the factory stage II cams... would the factory stage II flash account for all?

Yes. The prerequisite for stage 2 is the stage 1 air cleaner and stage 1 exhaust. If you did everything at the same time you would only need the stage 2 flash. Dean