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2018 Indian Chieftain (Tanto) Steel Gray
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This has probably been asked before. How long do you run a tune before the ecm adapts and learns? So how long do you give a tune before trying the next one?
 

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Does it actually adapt and learn?

i never noticed a difference between right after a flash and a few hundred miles later...
 

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Just tried the first tune a couple days ago. Rode 130 miles and didn’t really notice any difference from start of ride till end. WOW what a difference! I’m going to load the second tune that Craig sent and try it but I don’t see how it can be any better.
 

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This has probably been asked before. How long do you run a tune before the ecm adapts and learns? So how long do you give a tune before trying the next one?
Longer answer then needed, but it is a good subject to expand on.

There are two sets of fuel trims that our ECU applies....Short Term Fuel Trims and Long Term Fuel Trims. As soon as the ECU goes into closed-loop operation (out of startup enrichment mode), the Short Term Fuel Trims become active. Their purpose is to maintain 14.7:1 AFR immediately. They can correct +- 25% before a code is thrown. Over time, the ECU performs a running average of the STFT's per fuel table cell to zero in on the average fuel trim being applied at that particular table cell. (Think of the fuel table cells as the equavlent to fuel jets in a carburetor. Each adjustable by the fuel trims.).

It usually takes about 100 miles for the LTFT's to become active, but it is totally dependent on how radical the STFT's are adjusting. If minor, then longer, if major corrections, the LTFT's become active sooner.

My goal when remote tuning is to zero in on these corrections and apply them so the ECU does not. This makes for a far more smoother and cooler running engine. Why? Because anything the ECU does with fuel trims is after the fact, based on the o2 readings...the fuel is either richer or leaner then the engine needs. By manually making corrections to the fuel tables, the ECU "hits" the correct fueling right off the bat and requires very minor changes.
 

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Btw- what does that 14.7.1 mean?
As Max states, that is the ideal Air Fuel Ratio for the complete burning of gasoline during combustion or the Stoich value of gasoline. Or 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel will result in all the gasoline to be burnt. It is only idea at idle through cruise and not for heavy loads and RPM's where it would be too lean to develop the power requested of the engine.

The o2 sensors on our bikes are narrowband and know three conditions i.e. rich, lean, stoich. They are continuously switch between rich and lean with the average of stoich as the goal. So if you look at the true AFR of our engines at idle through cruise, it is swinging trying to maintain an average of 14.7.

For instance, Idle is best set for an AFR of 13.5 to 15.0. Cruise is 14.7 to 15.5. WOT is 11.5 to 13.3 AFR for gasoline. So closed-loop operation using narrowband sensors is perfect for idle through cruise with heavy loads and RPM's going into open-loop at richer then 13.3:1. This is exactly how I setup the Target AFR's on the tunes I develop.
 

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Does it hurt anything to switch back and forth on the two tunes? I’m having a hard time deciding on 1 or 2.
 

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I just got my PV3 in from Fuelmoto the other day. Went ahead and married it to the bike and downloaded a stock tune from the website. At the end of the flash the PV3 states "turn the key on and off to verify the flash" So I power cycled the bike but the PV3 never says anything if it "stuck" or not.

What am I missing here?
 

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I just got my PV3 in from Fuelmoto the other day. Went ahead and married it to the bike and downloaded a stock tune from the website. At the end of the flash the PV3 states "turn the key on and off to verify the flash" So I power cycled the bike but the PV3 never says anything if it "stuck" or not.

What am I missing here?
I have got my PV3 on its way I’ll let you know how I get on, it should be with me on Tuesday.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I just got my PV3 in from Fuelmoto the other day. Went ahead and married it to the bike and downloaded a stock tune from the website. At the end of the flash the PV3 states "turn the key on and off to verify the flash" So I power cycled the bike but the PV3 never says anything if it "stuck" or not.

What am I missing here?
If there was a problem with the flash the PV3 would have told you to restore the ECU when it powered back up. Since it did not, you are good to go.

  1. if you have not already filled out a Tune Request on FM’s site, please do so. You will receive their tune as well as mine.
 

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Thanks for the reply. No, it didn't' say anything at all. In fact, I flashed it a second time - just to be sure and again, I power cycled the bike and ... no confirmation or error message on the PV3. I just read somewhere that you are supposed to wait 45 seconds or so before turning the bike back on. Is that true?

I'll have to look at FMs website to find that tune request - I'm going to wait until I get my A/C in before doing that. No since in burdening you with multiple tune requests. Thanks, again

If there was a problem with the flash the PV3 would have told you to restore the ECU when it powered back up. Since it did not, you are good to go.

  1. if you have not already filled out a Tune Request on FM’s site, please do so. You will receive their tune as well as mine.
 

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Thanks for the reply. No, it didn't' say anything at all. In fact, I flashed it a second time - just to be sure and again, I power cycled the bike and ... no confirmation or error message on the PV3. I just read somewhere that you are supposed to wait 45 seconds or so before turning the bike back on. Is that true?

I'll have to look at FMs website to find that tune request - I'm going to wait until I get my A/C in before doing that. No since in burdening you with multiple tune requests. Thanks, again
With the PVCX you are suppose to wait for 45 seconds. According to Dynojet, with the PV3 there is no need to wait, although I prefer to wait 1 minute between flashes or powering the bike up....hang over from the PVCX days.

To verify which tune is in the bike hit the flash menu and notice the tune that has the * in front. That is the last successfully flashed tune the PV3 performed.

Here is the link to the tune request page.
 

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Just installed the Wimmer A/C today. Used the link you so graciously provided. Hopefully I've submitted everything correctly.

Thanks again Sir.
I am sure you did. I will be processing the request this evening.
 

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2018 Indian Chieftain (Tanto) Steel Gray
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Do we have to put the Indian flash back on the back before taking the bike in for service?
 
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