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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
I live in Colorado and noticed on my SDH that passing speed seems really slow/ sluggish to me. Like it struggles to pass. I know the SDH isnt a sport bike, but still.

I recently bought this bike used 8k miles from a dealership here. The bike had been lowered and had V&H slip ons. I do not know or see that any other mods were done. I traded the V&H slip ons for factory ones (too loud for me). The exhaust plugs on the oems I took in trade are missing so assume the guy I traded them for knocked them out already. I have checked the pipe clamps so dont think they are leaking at that spot. I use premium gas. Checked the exhaust head pipe nuts for 15 ft lbs torque using my torque wrench. One on each could tighten a very little but not much, the other two didnt. I'm not a mechanic, and only do minor simple things like oil changes etc..

Not sure why passing takes a while. Is this normal or is something a miss? With the exhaust plugs out, shouldnt I have more pep not less?

Been thinking about having the computer flashed with a PV3 from Dyno/ Fuel Moto but I dont know much about it other than what I have been reading up on in forums recently. It's a bit confusing to me, not having done it before. Not sure if previous owner flashed it and the factory exhaust is causing the issue? From what I've read about slip ons, it shouldnt matter, right?

Please excuse me if these are all simple questions, just trying to learn and get my bike right.
 

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Unless your previous bike was a sport bike, you should be very satisfied with your passing performance of your SDH. Regardless if you are passing someone at 55 or 85 you should have no problem and should detect instant and very smooth fast acceleration. Go to your dealership and test ride another large Indian and then make the determination if yours feels off.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm coming from a 2016 Indian Scout, which to me was really like a sport bike in acceleration. Prior to that bike, I was out of riding for about 20+ years. That bike was a 600 Ninja. I've grown up since then ;^)
 

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Hi, What year is the bike? I have a 19 and I have no trouble passing and to add to that cars have trouble keeping up on the interstate. With any new vehicle to me I give it a good service and make sure everything is in spec. Do you know the maintenance history of the bike? How many miles? Stock engine other than the exhaust?
 

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It really matters what speed you're going and what gear you're in. For passing, you should be in the 4-5k range on the tach.
I wouldn't necessarily say 4-5k more like 3-3.5k. That is where a stock 111 is making max torque. In 6th gear doing 80mph at 3500-3800 RPM. Still have plenty left and at 100 in no time. If you are shifting a stock 111 at 4-5k rpm you have nothing left and the bike is definitely not making peak torque, as a matter of fact it is dropping after 3.5k.

574818

In the above dyno you can see exactly what I am talking about. This is on a modified stock bike. The stock 111 actually makes peak torque higher like 3k but levels out more. This bike in the dyno graph is making peak torque at 2,740rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Okay these are some useful comments. Thanks.

The bike is a 2018. I purchased the bike from same dealership the original owner did. He only had it for a year. Dont know if any tunes were done or not. I saw he lowered it and after market exhaust.

I typically run at the 2-3k band. I didnt think winding it out 4-5k was good or not. No red line on the gauge so feared blowing it up. (insert "noob!" reply here). I guess I need to down shift and throttle up.

Still thinking about getting it tuned but never did it and reluctant since not completely sure about the process or if it's risky. From what I read, most flash it after doing engine mods. I think I read that even with a stock bike it will make a difference?
 

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You should be a peak as stated at around 3-3,400 when passing. I would highly recommend the PV3 and an upgraded air cleaner. You can literally hear the engine change sounds when you hit it and is sucks in big air about about 3K. My 17 SF runs like a top and passes in a split second.

I simply have Stage 1 pipes, Stage 1 air cleaner, and a PVCX (the precursor to the PV3) fuel moto tune. It gives me plenty of roll on power.

The other thing to note is the PV3 will allow you to shut off the rev limiter, and open up your butterfly for better throttle response. That was the single best thing for me. The throttle was way too "slouch" like for me stock on the 17's..

Minor note, you do have a differing connection at the throttle on the 18 with the design changes in the controls and a smoother feel off the floor, but opening that butterfly faster and wider increase the get up and go factor immensely.
 

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I typically run at the 2-3k band. I didnt think winding it out 4-5k was good or not. No red line on the gauge so feared blowing it up. (insert "noob!" reply here). I guess I need to down shift and throttle up.
There is no problem running it up to 5k but the stock bike is a bit reluctant to get there. If you are trying to overtake in a high gear and the rpm is under 3k you are not getting the best out of it. Change down to get the rpm up to 3,500 and increase speed from there. You will enjoy the bike much more if you give it a bit of throttle.

You can't blow the motor up as the rev limiter won't let you go past a certain rpm in each gear (5,600 I think), and won't let you go over 120 mph at all.

The PV3 on a stock bike will get it running a lot better. Pablo has spoken of the better throttle response. The PV3 has a table that converts what % of throttle twist you give it to what the % of power output it gives you. You can have that table set up to 10% twist and only 3% output and you'll get nowhere. Or you can set 10% twist to 15% output and the bike takes off like a rocket. Those numbers are exaggerated, but you get the meaning. This is not raising the power of the bike, it just brings on more power with less throttle twist and it makes the bike feel more powerful.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks guys.

If I get the PV3, is it as simple as it looks? What I read made it sound like plug and play, get map from Dyno or Fuel Moto then upload it to the bike? Is it that easy? I dont know anything about how much twist or output I would want/need/is best but I get what you're saying it can do. From what I'm reading it seems that there are pre-mapped profiles and ones you can customize yourself, or no? I have the $ to get the PV3 now but reluctant due to above concerns.

I guess I can call Fuel Moto and get some advise as well. Dont know many hard core bikers here that would know about this stuff. Mostly weekend warriors like me. I really need to get to some of the Indian meet ups to pick people's brains.
 

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The process is quite simple, but you can progress to a more compicated level if you wish.

Buy the PV3 from Fuel Moto.
Connect to the bike and it pairs permanently (you can only use it for one bike).
It will read certain info from the bike and write files to the PV3.
Copy those files to your computer.
Email the files to Fuel Moto and tell them of any mods to the bike, and they will email you a tune that suits your bike.
That tune will have a slightly more responsive throttle demand table, but the greater good is done with air/fuel ratios and ignition timing etc.
Copy that tune to the PV3 from your computer.
Connect PV3 to the bike and flash it to the computer - it takes a few minutes.
Remove the PV3, it does not stay connected.
That's it.
You can stop here or go to the next steps.

For more tech savvy riders, they have software that can adjust the tune.
Install the software on the computer and load your tune. You can see all sorts of information, some of which you might be able to understand, a lot of it will be a mystery. Learning the mystery can be fun for riders who like that sort of involvement.

CraigB1960 here on the forum is the tune wizard and he is happy to answer questions. He's helped countless people with getting the best from their bikes.

From there you can connect the PV3 and set it to log mode and it will log the bike's details under acceleration etc.
Fuel Moto has a service whereby you send the logs in and they send back a modded tune that you flash to the bike.
Then you log more runs and send them etc. A few repeats of this and the bike becomes very finely tuned.
CraigB is the expert behind Fuel Moto's tuning service.

Or you can do it yourself.
Trimming equations are available so you can use the logs to make adjustments to air/fuel ratio etc.
Load ride logs into the software and tell the equations to go to work.
The tune will be trimmed a little to suit your bike a touch better. Flash that modded tune to the bike.
Now go and log more runs and do the equations again.
Repeat that until the trims make hardly any difference to the tune.
You now have a tune so suited to your bike that you won't find it better anywhere.

I bought a Scout in 2016 and got a PVCX and tune for it. The difference was remarkable.
When I moved to a 2018 Springfield DH I got another PVCX and this time did the progressive logging/reflash thing. The motor became very smooth and ran beautifully after several repeats.
It's the best single mod you can make to these motors.
 

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Dynojet password protects the files now, not sure if that goes for FuelMoto supplied ones or not, so those aren’t user changeable anymore AFAIK.

Just the Scout stock file did wonders for me. And being a Scout it can be a bit of a slug if passing in sixth gear while going only 70 miles an hour. That’s around 3700 RPM. It’s speed burst happens around 4500 RPM and up.
 

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Dynojet password protects the files now, not sure if that goes for FuelMoto supplied ones or not, so those aren’t user changeable anymore AFAIK.

Just the Scout stock file did wonders for me. And being a Scout it can be a bit of a slug if passing in sixth gear while going only 70 miles an hour. That’s around 3700 RPM. It’s speed burst happens around 4500 RPM and up.

Some of the tunes I have gotten from FM do password protect the files, but leave open the DBW tables so you can adjust throttle response yourself if you wish.
 

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Just did a PV3 with a stage 1 tune from Craig. I was happy with the bike before the tune. Now it is like a new bike with more acceleration and power. I can now go all the way to 80 mph in 4th gear at around 3600 rpm whereas before I would have to shift from 4th to 5th at about 60-65 mph. Engine spools up nice now. Before it felt like an asthmatic.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm looking to add the stage 1 high performance air intake, then flash it. Looks like you have to pay out the nose $520 for the cleaner kit.
 

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Yeah they are expensive. I went the K&N in the stock air cleaner route and I am happy with the performance. The tune was the biggest improvement especially considering that the factory maps have a soft rev limiter in them that limits the throttle to about 60% of what it should at around 4600 rpm.
 

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CSpaR:

Many years ago I read an article by Joe Minten (American Rider Magazine) regarding passing power and the need for more. His solution was to shift down one gear and twist the throttle. By shifting down one gear, he said your bike will gain gobs of horsepower and torque, thus there is no need to spend unnecessary dollars on high performance items, as they aren't needed.

That's what I do. Shift from 6th. to 5th. and gas it. My 111 will pass a truck in seconds while I try to hang on to my handlebar grips as my body tries to slide off the back of bike!

Before you spend big bucks, try this simple and "cheap" method. =0)

Griff
 

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True. I read that article as well and probably still have it somewhere. I believe that the article was written right when EFI was coming out for bikes. Even though I was very happy with the stock 111 performance I wanted to remove some of the restrictions holding back the potential of this engine. Being able to have full throttle and remove soft rev limits made the engine that much better to me. Definitely not necessary, but a welcomed improvement.
 
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