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In 1979 Harley bagan to implement SQC (statistical quality control) those who didn't want to buy in to the program were told they were welcome to leave. This is when Harley quality began to improve.It was a concept they learned from the japanese manufacturers.

Japanese autos had a reputation for quality and reliability. Ford was also one of the first american manufacturers to adopt SQC. Today most manufacturers in many industries use SQC. I am sure Polaris does as well. It has nothing to do with design or engineering, just the manufacture of components. SQC was a major part of Harleys turnaround in the quality of their bikes.

Simply put if the spec range for the big end of a connecting rod is 2.250" plus or minus .005" then any part that measured 2.245-2.255 would be considered acceptable.

SQC uses process controls to get that part as close to 2.250" as possible consistently and reliably. SQC allows the spec range to be tightened up to plus or minus .002" or closer to the target 2.250"

If you manufacture all your parts this way they fit together better and quality goes up rather than one part at the big end of the spec range and the part that mates with it at the small end of the spec range which results in less quality and less reliability.

It all relies on the people that monitor the process and participate in the manufacturing doing a good job. We benefit. Thats why the AMF years were so bad for Harley because so many of the workers left and the ones they hired didn't know how to build bikes.

SQC made everyone better. Now designs and engineering is another story. SQC only makes the manufacture of components better.
Deming Influence on Post-war Japanese Quality Development (qfdi.org)
 

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Founding member / aka Husky Davidson. 10/09/14
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Ford was also one of the first american manufacturers to adopt SQC.
That and other critical components like choice of material and design..
SPC (a tool) “statistical process control” is usually used on critical dimensions.. dimensions that effect performance…. To verify if a process is in control or not.
What I found interesting is that the Japanese learned “lean manufacturing” from Henry Ford then sold it back to the US (Kaizen).
 

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That and other critical components like choice of material and design..
SPC (a tool) “statistical process control” is usually used on critical dimensions.. dimensions that effect performance…. To verify if a process is in control or not.
What I found interesting is that the Japanese learned “lean manufacturing” from Henry Ford then sold it back to the US (Kaizen).
China oughta give that SPC thing a go. If they did maybe rusty rims and misbehaved electronics would be less of an issue ;)
 

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Founding member / aka Husky Davidson. 10/09/14
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1,847 Posts
China oughta give that SPC thing a go. If they did maybe rusty rims and misbehaved electronics would be less of an issue ;)
Great observation..😝. The thing is it’s all related to the customers initial requirement, (Polaris). Then the safe guards such as source inspecting, (Polaris going to where the part is made and problem solving).. And Polaris’s receiving inspection.
Now if Polaris cuts cost on any of those processes,
you the customer will suffer. And ultimately sales.
“The cost of poor quality”
🤣
644608
 

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Silver member
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Great observation..😝. The thing is it’s all related to the customers initial requirement, (Polaris). Then the safe guards such as source inspecting, (Polaris going to where the part is made and problem solving).. And Polaris’s receiving inspection.
Now if Polaris cuts cost on any of those processes,
you the customer will suffer. And ultimately sales.
“The cost of poor quality”
🤣
View attachment 644608
When I had my small'sh construction company I went to a local supplier who sold all kinds and brands of woodworking equipment. I was there to buy a lathe. I believe it was mid to late '80s. At the time a lot of the equipment (Delta for example) was being manufactured in Taiwan I think, I wanted American made. I got into a conversation with the store owner who told me the better tool/equipment companies had US engineers on site in the foreign countries to ensure their specs were adhered to. I didn't know if that was true or not. Regardless, I ended up buying a used lath from a friend that was actually made in the US.

Anyways, we have been and are way too dependent on foreign suppliers, particularly China. Yea, I know.... cheaper goods, economics, yada yada. A whole nuther can'o worms lol. But when a moto is out of warrantee and we have to buy a new rim or an electronic widget that's made in China, and pay a highly inflated USA type price for it from Polaris, it sux. Same with most every product, not just Polaris.
 
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In 1979 Harley bagan to implement SQC (statistical quality control) those who didn't want to buy in to the program were told they were welcome to leave. This is when Harley quality began to improve.It was a concept they learned from the japanese manufacturers.

Japanese autos had a reputation for quality and reliability. Ford was also one of the first american manufacturers to adopt SQC. Today most manufacturers in many industries use SQC. I am sure Polaris does as well. It has nothing to do with design or engineering, just the manufacture of components. SQC was a major part of Harleys turnaround in the quality of their bikes.

Simply put if the spec range for the big end of a connecting rod is 2.250" plus or minus .005" then any part that measured 2.245-2.255 would be considered acceptable.

SQC uses process controls to get that part as close to 2.250" as possible consistently and reliably. SQC allows the spec range to be tightened up to plus or minus .002" or closer to the target 2.250"

If you manufacture all your parts this way they fit together better and quality goes up rather than one part at the big end of the spec range and the part that mates with it at the small end of the spec range which results in less quality and less reliability.

It all relies on the people that monitor the process and participate in the manufacturing doing a good job. We benefit. Thats why the AMF years were so bad for Harley because so many of the workers left and the ones they hired didn't know how to build bikes.

SQC made everyone better. Now designs and engineering is another story. SQC only makes the manufacture of components better.
I would add that while SPC helps control processes, Computer Numerical Controls (CNC) and error proofing has allowed manufacture's to improve their processes to the point that SPC is less of a factor today. Not only can they make it to tighter tolerances, processes can be measured, often on the fly with great speed and accuracy, and with automatic feedback for to machining equipment to prevent defect escapement. Improved cleanliness standards and metallic burr reduction through improved machining processes, in addition to tightly held tolerances are some of the reasons we do not need to fear the controversial 10,000 mile oil (synthetic) change.
 

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Probably not. SPC addresses manufacturing, not design issues.
China manufactures parts, hence my SPC comment. I believe they steal many designs ;)
 
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Maybe this was covered in these 15 pages, I didn't read it all. Indian did a survey on the next Scout just before the Sportster S came out. They asked about preference between HP and range, which seems like they don't want to go bigger on a gas tank. I suspect a new Scout is coming. I love my Scout but congrats to Harley for bringing this bike to market. Competition is a great thing.
 

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There is a lot to like about the new HD Sportster S, especially when compared to the Scout, including:

Light weight - 502 pounds.

Likely stronger stock performance – 94 ft. lbs. @ 6000 rpm, 121 HP @ 7500 rpm.

Likely a better suspension – inverted and adjustable suspension.

Cornering enhanced traction control.

Cornering enhanced ABS.

3 pre-set ride modes and one custom ride mode.

Traction control.

Built in navigation with blue tooth phone pairing.

All LED lighting.

Cruise control.

TPMS.

Adjustable clutch and brake levers (not sure but I believe it to be so).

Fuel gauge (still unbelievable to me that the Scout lacks this).



As for price, you get what you pay for. More features means higher price. Personally, I’m willing to pay for these features. So as a Scout owner who is disappointed by some of the budget cutting Indian undertook on the Scout, I’m very intrigued by this package.

However, I can’t say I’m a fan of the looks of this bike. Specifically, the lack of fenders, ugly exhaust, and bronze colored engine covers don’t appeal to me. I’m hoping HD makes different versions of the Sportster that present an alternative appearance.

One major disappointment is the 3.1 gallon fuel tank. There seems to be an unwritten rule in the industry – bikes of this size and weight must have a 150 mile range. The Scout, Speedmaster, Rebel, and now Sportster S all seem to think this is what buyers want. Not sure how they go about conducting market research, but I think this is a shortcoming.

Any Scout owners intrigued by the new Sportster S?
Hello all. Just joined the forum. I've got a two week old scout 60 that already has 500 miles on it. Now, on to the topic at hand and I have one issue with the new Sportster S not mentioned yet and that's the seat height. 29 inches as opposed to the lower seat height of the old sportster 1200 which was my previous bike and being on the shorter side I find the scout models much better suited to me. That's probably not an issue for 90% of riders but for us height challenged folks it's a deal breaker.
 

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Founding member / aka Husky Davidson. 10/09/14
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1,847 Posts
China manufactures parts, hence my SPC comment. I believe they steal many designs ;)
@Senecagreen brought up TQ manufacturing, SPC is only one of the tools used in TQ.
I don’t think there is a doubt in anyone’s mind that if there is money in it, China will copy.. or legitimately produce for a American manufacturer.
These days China is a major manufacturer of American based brands.
With the constant raising of the costs to do business in the US, China and Mexico are a no brainer if a business wants return on its dollar.
Never the less quality can be maintained with requirements by the parent company.. But with those requirements, cost goes up.
The whole so called “competition is good for the consumer” thing is very entertaining..
Why? Because Polaris is going to have to spend more money to compete..Maybe they have spy’s in HD and have already been working on a answer, we’ll see..

But in the mean time HD has still maintained their costly “fit and finish” “Bar” and now have raised the performance “Bar”.
Harley vs Indian, er…ah…I mean Mr.Bean.😝
🤣
 

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As far as the tech on the Sportster, Polaris/Indian has all of it, it's a matter of cost, price, market. As far as upgrading and refreshing the Scout, it's due and based on the survey I completed my guess is it's coming soon, 22 or 23 at the latest.
 

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Founding member / aka Husky Davidson. 10/09/14
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1,847 Posts
As far as the tech on the Sportster, Polaris/Indian has all of it, it's a matter of cost, price, market. As far as upgrading and refreshing the Scout, it's due and based on the survey I completed my guess is it's coming soon, 22 or 23 at the latest.
Oh sure, the technology has been around for years..it’s just a matter if they want/need to use it..
The thing with HD’s 30 degree offset crank, I wonder what’s the benefit? and if Polaris will incorporate that also.
 

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There is a lot to like about the new HD Sportster S, especially when compared to the Scout, including:

Light weight - 502 pounds.

Likely stronger stock performance – 94 ft. lbs. @ 6000 rpm, 121 HP @ 7500 rpm.

Likely a better suspension – inverted and adjustable suspension.

Cornering enhanced traction control.

Cornering enhanced ABS.

3 pre-set ride modes and one custom ride mode.

Traction control.

Built in navigation with blue tooth phone pairing.

All LED lighting.

Cruise control.

TPMS.

Adjustable clutch and brake levers (not sure but I believe it to be so).

Fuel gauge (still unbelievable to me that the Scout lacks this).



As for price, you get what you pay for. More features means higher price. Personally, I’m willing to pay for these features. So as a Scout owner who is disappointed by some of the budget cutting Indian undertook on the Scout, I’m very intrigued by this package.

However, I can’t say I’m a fan of the looks of this bike. Specifically, the lack of fenders, ugly exhaust, and bronze colored engine covers don’t appeal to me. I’m hoping HD makes different versions of the Sportster that present an alternative appearance.

One major disappointment is the 3.1 gallon fuel tank. There seems to be an unwritten rule in the industry – bikes of this size and weight must have a 150 mile range. The Scout, Speedmaster, Rebel, and now Sportster S all seem to think this is what buyers want. Not sure how they go about conducting market research, but I think this is a shortcoming.

Any Scout owners intrigued by the new Sportster S?
They did do a lot of upgrades to the Sportster S. More power, inverted forks, BUT forgot to give it awesome brakes.
 
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