Slammed dark horse / thoughts? 2021 thread

5140 Views 44 Replies 20 Participants Last post by msklein, 1 d ago

Darkhorsezim

Discussion Starter · Mar 28, 2021

Fuel tank Tire Wheel Sky Vehicle

Really love the look of a lowered rear end on a bagger. Saw the vicbaggers kit for lowering 1.5 inches. Pros and cons? I am on the fence about doing it myself. Just looking for some info thanks!

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Nick Phillips58

· #21 · Apr 1, 2021

I had mine lowered because I wasn't comfortable with the height. I like to have my feet flat on the ground when I standing at lights etc. I've had no issues with it at all, handles well, doesn't scrape the pipes, only bottomed out on me a couple of times when I've hit big potholes.

msklein

· #22 · Apr 1, 2021 (Edited)

Kost said:
They make seats for Chieftains to lower the bike even small women can flat foot, or close to it. I'm in your camp, lowering the bike upsets things...to each his own as they say.

I'm more into performance than profiling

i bought the reduced reach seat for my 2019 chieftain classic and I'm 5-6 and I'm barely flat footed on it, but i only have a 29 inch inseam and wear cowboy boots.
A1/2 to 3/4 inch lower would be nice.

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Wharf Rat

· #23 · Apr 1, 2021

These articles pretty well cover the subject.

www.riderswave.com

Lowering Your Bike | RIDERS WAVE

I never attempted to lower a bike until my wife, Felicia, and founder of Riders Wave, started riding. It did not take long to get an education on this subject. Memorializing it here, we hope to share our knowledge with someone in need; saving you some time and frustration. This post is directed...

www.riderswave.com

www.riderswave.com

Depending on how much you lower the bike, you may need kickstand alterations.

www.riderswave.com

Kickstands, More Than You Want to Know

A kickstand is designed so that when extended, the bike will set at a certain angle which keeps it from tipping over. Unfortunately, when frame is lowered , it has the same result as lengthening the kickstand.

www.riderswave.com

www.riderswave.com

www.riderswave.com

Firm Footing: Muy Confidence & Good Lookin' Too | RIDERS WAVE

What are you most unsure about when riding? Is it handling the bike in motion, slow speeds, or at rest? For me, it’s been handling the bike at slow speeds and at rest. We’ll leave the conversation about slow speeds for another time. In this post, I want to share some insight about how I […]

www.riderswave.com

www.riderswave.com

Bike Nut

· #24 · Apr 1, 2021 (Edited)

Darkhorsezim said:
View attachment 628399 View attachment 628399 Really love the look of a lowered rear end on a bagger. Saw the vicbaggers kit for lowering 1.5 inches. Pros and cons? I am on the fence about doing it myself. Just looking for some info thanks!

I put a link kit on my 18 Chieftain DH about a year ago, I'm going to keep it! It lowered the seat the 1-1/2" as claimed. It probably took me about 4 hours total over two days to install it. I did it at my son's place, he has a lift. The only reason it was over 2 days, I went with the kit that has the progressive spring and I had the spring compressor at my shop. It wasn't too bad of a job, you could possible do it without removing the rear fender, but it sure made it a lot easier. You will need a jack/stand to keep the bike straight up and to raise and lower the weight off the rear wheel. To do the progressive spring (highly recommended); a spring compressor if you have an air shock, a spanner wrench if you have an adjustable shock. I still keep at least 10-35 lbs in the shock depending on what I am doing and air shocks should never be run with no psi. I am 6'2" so there were never reach or height issues, I had just ridden other bikes that had been lowered and wanted to try it.

Pros:
Low speed turning and confidence is greatly improved!
No difference in ride comfort (if progressive spring is used).
Still use factory shock.
On my bike, there are no wiring harnesses that would be an issue.
Never had a muffler to scrape on turns (yet?), floorboards yes.
Windshield is more effective in the rain.
Did not have to adjust headlight.
Bike still leans over more than enough when on factory kick stand.
Easier to mount bike.

Cons:
Mufflers have scraped on some drive entrances.
Crossover pipe has scraped on some RR crossings.
In some situations you have to lean the bike to the right to get the kick stand into position.

https://www.pacificcoastindian.com/indian-lowering-kit-rear.htm

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Bike Nut

· #25 · Apr 1, 2021

Dvance800cc said:
My personal opinion (I'm not a mechanic or know physics) is changes to a motorcycle like lowering it or putting a big old crazy front wheel on it will change how the bike handles and how it was designed to ride. I guess I get if a person is really short and needs it lowered, but other than that I wouldn't do it. Just my 2 cents.

Have you ever heard anyone say lowering their bike made it handle worse? Other than scrapes and bumps.

Dvance800cc

· #26 · Apr 1, 2021

Bike Nut said:
Have you ever heard anyone say lowering their bike made it handle worse? Other than scrapes and bumps.

No, honesty I've not heard anyone say "handled worse". But in my opinion and this is just "my opinion", scrapes and bumps are handling worse. The more hard parts you start dragging on the ground while moving the more likely you are to have something not not so pleasant occur. Again just an opinion.

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Bike Nut

· #27 · Apr 1, 2021

Dvance800cc said:
No, honesty I've not heard anyone say "handled worse". But in my opinion and this is just "my opinion", scrapes and bumps are handling worse. The more hard parts you start dragging on the ground while moving the more likely you are to have something not not so pleasant occur. Again just an opinion.

Thanx, just checking. The only real issue I have had is scraping the floorboards, of course I did before I lowered it also, just not as much.

Axxehead

· #28 · Apr 1, 2021

I prefer the lowered stance. It does scrape now and then, but I'm much more attentive to avoid those situations. About 10+ lbs above what you normally run in the air shock helps a lot.

Wharf Rat

· #29 · Apr 1, 2021 (Edited)

Bike Nut said:
Have you ever heard anyone say lowering their bike made it handle worse? Other than scrapes and bumps.

Yes, Technically speaking, (that means I am being precise and your mileage may vary) lowering the bike changes the geometry, specifically the rake and trail which has a negative impact on handling, especially in the slow tight turns. In short, it will become more sensitive to turns.

HOWEVER, you may find the (fill in your reason for lowering here), offsets that handling issue. Personally, I think if you lower the bike, either for looks, or to help with confidence, it is your bike.. If you don't like the results, change it back. Nothing gained if you don't experiment a little.

My wife has had 3 bikes, all lowered. Her first bike once lowered would easily get away from you on a slow tight turn. It would get away from me and I knew what to expect. And, I could easily drag the boards just making a U turn but I had to fight the handlebars to keep from dumping it.

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Bike Nut

· #30 · Apr 1, 2021

Wharf Rat said:
Yes, Technically speaking, (that means I am being precise and your mileage may vary) lowering the bike changes the geometry, specifically the rake and trail which has a negative impact on handling, especially in the slow tight turns. In short, it will become more sensitive to turns.

HOWEVER, you may find the (fill in your reason for lowering here), offsets that handling issue. Personally, I think if you lower the bike, either for looks, or to help with confidence, it is your bike.. If you don't like the results, change it back. Nothing gained if you don't experiment a little.

My wife has had 3 bikes, all lowered. Her first bike once lowered would easily get away from you on a slow tight turn. It would get away from me and I knew what to expect. And, I could easily drag the boards just making a U turn but I had to fight the handlebars to keep from dumping it.

What kind kind of bike was your wife's 1st one? I understand exactly what your saying about the caster. I remember back in the 70's when everybody was chopping everything, I never liked to ride them, you had to fight them thru every turn.
I do not know what the difference is on the Chieftain, maybe it just didn't change the rake al that much, maybe the lowering the center of gravity out played the rake change, maybe it has something to do with the reversed triple trees (I thought that was for high speed handling)? I can say it takes slow tight turns much better now than before it got lowered. Advantage of the Chieftain also, with a few lbs of air it is at stock height again if I choose to.

Kost

· #31 · Apr 2, 2021

msklein said:
i bought the reduced reach seat for my 2019 chieftain classic and I'm 5-6 and I'm barely flat footed on it, but i only have a 29 inch inseam and wear cowboy boots.

Your doing alright! I'm 6 feet tall, with 30" inseam, I wear Western boots quite often when I ride. (Montana resident haha)

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Kitulu

· #32 · Apr 2, 2021

Wharf Rat said:
Yes, Technically speaking, (that means I am being precise and your mileage may vary) lowering the bike changes the geometry, specifically the rake and trail which has a negative impact on handling, especially in the slow tight turns. In short, it will become more sensitive to turns.

HOWEVER, you may find the (fill in your reason for lowering here), offsets that handling issue. Personally, I think if you lower the bike, either for looks, or to help with confidence, it is your bike.. If you don't like the results, change it back. Nothing gained if you don't experiment a little.

My wife has had 3 bikes, all lowered. Her first bike once lowered would easily get away from you on a slow tight turn. It would get away from me and I knew what to expect. And, I could easily drag the boards just making a U turn but I had to fight the handlebars to keep from dumping it.

It could be a combination of things. I have the lowering links on my RM. I also am a certified RiderCoach. I can demo all the exercises with no issue on my lowered RM, and I will occasionally drag the pipes in the U-Turn depending on how tight of a turn I am trying to make, and how much counterweight I am using. I actually had more problems when I installed the KST Apache bars...the reach was too far for me, even with the ROX Riser added. I could not demo the offset cone weave or the u-turn because of the handling difficulties imposed on me by the bars. I used it as a teaching point for mods on bikes.

The main issue that I have in day-to-day riding is that the roads in Germany are cambered, and occasionally bumpy. I have scraped pipes when exiting roundabouts and when going through a curve and hit a bump that I didn't see. As a result, I adjust my riding style to compensate by slowing down, or using the chin-over-wrist method in curves.

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Wharf Rat

· #33 · Apr 2, 2021

2

Bike Nut said:
What kind kind of bike was your wife's 1st one? I understand exactly what your saying about the caster. I remember back in the 70's when everybody was chopping everything, I never liked to ride them, you had to fight them thru every turn.
I do not know what the difference is on the Chieftain, maybe it just didn't change the rake al that much, maybe the lowering the center of gravity out played the rake change, maybe it has something to do with the reversed triple trees (I thought that was for high speed handling)? I can say it takes slow tight turns much better now than before it got lowered. Advantage of the Chieftain also, with a few lbs of air it is at stock height again if I choose to.

Boulevard C50T. It made a difference.

Her Chieftain is lowered 2" or more, I can't see any handling issues. In fact, when I get on her Chieftain, is like riding a kids bicycle. It does scrape the pipes and we did raise it back up from -2.25" She has a 27" inseam. If you lower your Chieftain very much and depending on your weight + gear, DO increase the pre-load. She bottomed hers out a few times resulting in a dented fender where the seat bolt connected with the tire. Simple solution, remove and shorten bolt AND increase pre-load a bit. Note to @Kost - she uses thick soled boots too. It is always a combination of things that work.

Kitulu said:
It could be a combination of things. I have the lowering links on my RM. I also am a certified RiderCoach. I can demo all the exercises with no issue on my lowered RM, and I will occasionally drag the pipes in the U-Turn depending on how tight of a turn I am trying to make, and how much counterweight I am using. I actually had more problems when I installed the KST Apache bars...the reach was too far for me, even with the ROX Riser added. I could not demo the offset cone weave or the u-turn because of the handling difficulties imposed on me by the bars. I used it as a teaching point for mods on bikes.

The main issue that I have in day-to-day riding is that the roads in Germany are cambered, and occasionally bumpy. I have scraped pipes when exiting roundabouts and when going through a curve and hit a bump that I didn't see. As a result, I adjust my riding style to compensate by slowing down, or using the chin-over-wrist method in curves.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

@Kitulu
Interesting. I too have a short inseam at 30" and now have a new knee. I am considering lowering the RoadMaster an 1". Where I have difficulty getting a leg over my RM, there is NO issue throwing a leg over my wife's Chieftain.

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Kitulu

· #34 · Apr 2, 2021

Wharf Rat said:
View attachment 628963
Boulevard C50T. It made a difference.
View attachment 628964
Her Chieftain is lowered 2" or more, I can't see any handling issues. In fact, when I get on her Chieftain, is like riding a kids bicycle. It does scrape the pipes and we did raise it back up from -2.25" She has a 27" inseam. If you lower your Chieftain very much and depending on your weight + gear, DO increase the pre-load. She bottomed hers out a few times resulting in a dented fender where the seat bolt connected with the tire. Simple solution, remove and shorten bolt AND increase pre-load a bit. Note to @Kost - she uses thick soled boots too. It is always a combination of things that work.

@Kitulu
Interesting. I too have a short inseam at 30" and now have a new knee. I am considering lowering the RoadMaster an 1". Where I have difficulty getting a leg over my RM, there is NO issue throwing a leg over my wife's Chieftain.

I mount my RM from the right side. It is easier to "step through" the seat area than try to swing my leg over from the left side and not hit the trunk or armrest.

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Wharf Rat

· #35 · Apr 2, 2021

Kitulu said:
I mount my RM from the right side. It is easier to "step through" the seat area than try to swing my leg over from the left side and not hit the trunk or armrest.

I discovered that method 2 weeks ago when we took an over-night trip - 2 days before knee surgery. I could not lift my leg over the bike so had to come up with a more graceful mounting method.

msklein

· #36 · Apr 2, 2021

Axxehead said:
I prefer the lowered stance. It does scrape now and then, but I'm much more attentive to avoid those situations. About 10+ lbs above what you normally run in the air shock helps a lot.

But I run 0 lbs in the rear shocks, at a buck fourty, i'm under the weight according to my salesman. But now thinking I probably should double check the manual.

msklein

· #37 · Apr 2, 2021

Kost said:
Your doing alright! I'm 6 feet tall, with 30" inseam, I wear Western boots quite often when I ride. (Montana resident haha)

Six inches taller than me and only one inch in inseam?

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Brother Scum

· #38 · Apr 2, 2021

I'm also sorta tall with a short inseam. Like an ape. 🐵

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Axxehead

· #39 · Apr 2, 2021

msklein said:
But I run 0 lbs in the rear shocks, at a buck fourty, i'm under the weight according to my salesman. But now thinking I probably should double check the manual.

The manual is for a stock bike, adding air keeps the bike from compressing the rear shock thus minimizing scraping on lowered bikes.

msklein

· #40 · Apr 2, 2021

Axxehead said:
The manual is for a stock bike, adding air keeps the bike from compressing the rear shock thus minimizing scraping on lowered bikes.

and mine is still stock

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