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My thoughts - Scout family. Scout 60 and Bobber 60 = leave it alone, basic, entry model, cheaper by far. Bobber 20 = dump it, it is a parts bike that can be built with OEM accessories.
Scout Bobber = 47mm upside down forks, dual disc front, 1300cc big bore (barrels and pistons as already in the market /Revolution?) 11 1/2 inch quality shocks, quality seat (increased price)
Scout Sport (new top line model replacing previous 1133cc Scout) = 47mm upside down forks, dual disc front, 1300cc, monoshock, full led, 4 inch ride command, 18 inch front wheel, 17 inch rear, 4 gallon tank, quality seat (increase in price but worth it for the quality of motorcycle) Okay, go ahead Indian Motorcycle and do it, haha. The Scout needs and is overdue for a big upgrade and now the Sportster/S is surely pushing you to do it. While I am at it, Challenger - introduce a trunk touring version and a fairing removed Street fighter bagger version.
Power Vintage = PowerPlus 108 liquid cooled Vintage = modern meets old school.
In my honest opinion, the line up that would take Indian on a growth path that they might not be able to cope with. Record sales quarterly and immense popularity gain.
Comments and replies gladly accepted, haha.
 

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Similar to some others but maybe not as difficult.
Use the Victory Octane Scout Engine. Same engine tuned up.
Slightly higher seat height giving room for better suspension.
Better from fork suspension. Not adjustable.
Mono shock rear with adjustable preload via knob
Same Ride Command as in the Chiefs.
Upgrade ecu with lean angle control etc like the FTR.
Better seat and upgraded controls
More paint choices.
Price 15 to 16k US
Keep current models at current pricing.
This is doable now with little engineering effort.

The question is
Does this keep Scouts in the game with new Sportsters?


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Similar to some others but maybe not as difficult.
Use the Victory Octane Scout Engine. Same engine tuned up.
Slightly higher seat height giving room for better suspension.
Better from fork suspension. Not adjustable.
Mono shock rear with adjustable preload via knob
Same Ride Command as in the Chiefs.
Upgrade ecu with lean angle control etc like the FTR.
Better seat and upgraded controls
More paint choices.
Price 15 to 16k US
Keep current models at current pricing.
This is doable now with little engineering effort.

The question is
Does this keep Scouts in the game with new Sportsters?


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I think most of these are good suggestions, but no, if I wanted more of a sport bike than a cruiser, I would still definitely go with the Sportster S. Unless you do a redesign, the Scout can't compete with a Sportster S any more than it can with an FTR.

I like that the Scout added some sportiness to a cruiser, but how much can you really add? 0 to 70 my Sixty is dreamy. 80, still ok. 90, 100, ... Not so dreamy anymore.:) I attribute that to the lack of a fairing, not a batwing, but a sport fairing. These bikes can't slice through the air like actual sport bikes. I don't care how many other boxes you tick, they still act like pickup trucks at high speeds. Anyways, I don't see the appeal of buying something that looks like a sport bike, but isn't.

We'll have to see what HD comes out with to replace the original Sportster. I don't think the Sportster S is it. Can Indian make a Scout S? We'll see. I think they will do some of the things in your list though. But they would have to do some redesign to get a Sportster S.
 

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I'm not sure a bike that starts out at $15k (Sportster S) is meant to threaten the Scouts.
At $9k for the 60, $11k for the Bobber, and $12k for the Scout 69, that Sportster is priced to compete with the Chiefs, not the Scouts..

Besides, a stage 1, if done correctly, on a Scout, will produce the same power levels as that Sportster S - appox. 120hp at the crank. for 100- 104 hp at the rear wheel.
 

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I'm not sure a bike that starts out at $15k (Sportster S) is meant to threaten the Scouts.
At $9k for the 60, $11k for the Bobber, and $12k for the Scout 69, that Sportster is priced to compete with the Chiefs, not the Scouts..

Besides, a stage 1, if done correctly, on a Scout, will produce the same power levels as that Sportster S - appox. 120hp at the crank. for 100- 104 hp at the rear wheel.
Well Harley did say some classic Sportster models would be following shortly


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I'm not sure a bike that starts out at $15k (Sportster S) is meant to threaten the Scouts.
At $9k for the 60, $11k for the Bobber, and $12k for the Scout 69, that Sportster is priced to compete with the Chiefs, not the Scouts..

Besides, a stage 1, if done correctly, on a Scout, will produce the same power levels as that Sportster S - appox. 120hp at the crank. for 100- 104 hp at the rear wheel.
Like you say this bike will probably compete with Chiefs. IMHO Indian has a miss with the Chiefs. Should have used the FTR engine or even the Challenger engine. The Chiefs look great. Put the right engine it’s a market dominator.
The platform that Indian can compete with the Sporster S and future models is the Scout right now. The Chief is locked into an air cooled motor.

I don’t consider the Sportster S a sports bike. It’s a power cruiser is a smaller format. The FTR is much closer to a sports bike than the new Sporster S. Sports bikes sales have dropped like a rock. Tough market.

HD plans to roll this engine through their line. It’s a great engine. Zietz is going take the credit for his predecessor’s plans. Or blame him if they don’t do well.

The Panamerica is selling out at the dealers. It’s doing exactly what they want keeping Harley owners in the brand instead of moving the to BMW when they want a lighter bike with functionality.


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What would you like to see for the next-gen Scout, or a refresh?

I think it's a really interesting topic that deserves discussion, as the Scout has been the revolutionary (pun INTENDED) entry-level cruiser for the past 6 years. With the new Sportster architecture that leadership is legitimately challenged; not only the S with the "cafe-style" seat and flat-track exhaust, but the other to-be-announced versions within the same product line more in line with the current Sportster. I think IMC is probably in the midst of re-prioritizing investment to try and put a damper on a potential HD revitalization. At a minimum, IMC needs to add more tech. I hear from my dealer that IMC will add the digital dash from the Chief to the Scout as an optional upgrade. CC would be great.

This is not meant to be a rebuttal to the previous thread. I think there was some good discussion about the next-gen Scout that deserves to continue. I understand the previous OP's request to close the thread and will report any posts insulting/criticizing them. Be civil.
Updated speedo electronics, blue tooth map location, 18” front and 18” rear spokes wheel, 10” baby apes, boards. K&N on the side of the bike air filter. Not that under the tank sh-t. Free flash and pipes with your trade in…🇺🇸🌵
 

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Like you say this bike will probably compete with Chiefs. IMHO Indian has a miss with the Chiefs. Should have used the FTR engine or even the Challenger engine. The Chiefs look great. Put the right engine it’s a market dominator.
The platform that Indian can compete with the Sporster S and future models is the Scout right now. The Chief is locked into an air cooled motor.

I don’t consider the Sportster S a sports bike. It’s a power cruiser is a smaller format. The FTR is much closer to a sports bike than the new Sporster S. Sports bikes sales have dropped like a rock. Tough market.

HD plans to roll this engine through their line. It’s a great engine. Zietz is going take the credit for his predecessor’s plans. Or blame him if they don’t do well.

The Panamerica is selling out at the dealers. It’s doing exactly what they want keeping Harley owners in the brand instead of moving the to BMW when they want a lighter bike with functionality.


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I love my scout. But, a PP108 Chief with normal fenders… and I’m pretty sure I’d upgrade the day it came out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Like you say this bike will probably compete with Chiefs. IMHO Indian has a miss with the Chiefs. Should have used the FTR engine or even the Challenger engine. The Chiefs look great. Put the right engine it’s a market dominator.
The platform that Indian can compete with the Sporster S and future models is the Scout right now. The Chief is locked into an air cooled motor.
I tend to agree, I was pretty disappointed when I saw the Chief was air cooled. It's just such a big architectural change to make a bike water cooled that they're really locked in now on that platform. Here's to hoping they put something water cooled out on the same weight class. Springfield update?
 

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HDs new Sport S will FORCE Indian to FINALLY give the Scout a LOT more horsepower. I have been saying since the FTR came out that Indian should put that engine in the Scout frame; now I think they should come out with a new model called the SUPER Scout with at least 140hp. That's it, just more HP, no other changes, I like it just the way it is now.
You people that want it to look like a bagger just go buy a bagger and be done with it but DO NOT change the look of the Scout.
 

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HDs new Sport S will FORCE Indian to FINALLY give the Scout a LOT more horsepower. I have been saying since the FTR came out that Indian should put that engine in the Scout frame; now I think they should come out with a new model called the SUPER Scout with at least 140hp. That's it, just more HP, no other changes, I like it just the way it is now.
You people that want it to look like a bagger just go buy a bagger and be done with it but DO NOT change the look of the Scout.
Bingo. One can hope. I’m happy Harley released the S for this reason. Good for all of us.
 

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Just curious, is the need for more power in a Scout a faster takeoff? I've been over a 100 on the sixty, which is pretty much the same as a scout, and the bike starts really feeling light at those speeds. I've never ridden a sport bike, but they seem better designed (aerodynamically) for those speeds. Which are stupid speeds regardless of the bike, except on a track.:)
 

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There is a very odd "thing" that occurs, at some point, as HP/TRQ per LB increases. The bike becomes "unfun" for certain "portions" of the riding experience.
In a nutshell, it boils down to throttle control - and the attending concentration levels ( discipline ) required - while riding. This requirement will not "sit well" with many riders.

I know, I know, sounds weird coming from me - a hopeless power junkie.. But being addicted to high HP/Trq per lb is what it takes to know this.. I have bikes (offroad racing bikes) I really don't want to ride anymore due to this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
That's an interesting point. Personally, I LOVE having more power than I can reasonably manage. My GTI had 365hp. It'd spin the wheels at 50 with cold tires, more in inclement weather. Loved it. Now I have a plan to get to 450hp/500lbft in my RWD car. Can I reasonably use it on the street? Hell no. But I love having it anyways, for the experience. Bikes amplify that x100. Two wheels and no seatbelt or cage leave no room for error, so it's even more fun.

But I also recognize I'm not like most. When people test drive cars or test ride bikes, they don't like to be frightened or pushed beyond their comfort zone. So it doesn't make sense for IMC to put 130hp into a frame that can't manage the power well. But does "well" even mean? Again, I'm a person that would add power until it scares me
 

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With motorcycles ( not with autos), that's the "rub" - having so much power that it must be constantly "managed".
Oddly enough, with me, I tire of being constantly subjected to intense G-Forces, even when braced..
 
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I find that these HP wars get out of hand. They rush to make more power and more power and then have to add all of the electronics and wider tires and grippier rubber to reign them back in, so then you need more power to overcome the extra grip and the electric nannies, and so on and so on. IMO, there is nothing more fun than a rev happy engine that you can absolutely ring out to 100% on a regular basis without getting yourself in too much trouble. I've owned several high hp muscle cars, raced autocross for years, and driven and flown plenty of fast vehicles. Most of those high hp cars, other than being good for a few laughs and giggles in some hard pulls, just arent very fun to drive overall. I've found that I have more fun in cars like my MGB, my wife's old Fiat abarth, or my Bobber 60 bc I can beat the ever-living hell out of them and push them harder than I ever pushed a Corvette or similar on the street.

Look at some of the "muscle" that many here (myself included) probably drove growing up.. An Ford V8 from the 60s through the 90s only made 145-230 hp. A 69 Camaro was about 290 hp. Were they boring? Maybe I'm the minority, but i like to be able to grab a fistful of throttle and not have it immediately lose traction and kill me in anything other than perfectly smooth and dry pavement, but instead have hard pulling power that I can actually take up to 8k+ rpms with a great sound and put a smile on my face before I hit 115 or greater.
 

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I think there is always a point of diminishing returns and a point when there begins a trade off in so called performance vs. reliability and drivability. It’s no different on my diesel truck that I could take to 1K+ hp but would sacrifice many other things along the way so I keep it around 600hp where it’s still fun and driveable/reliable too.

I think the scout engine is perfectly fine as is and there are options to take it further with tuning, bbk etc. and you get a lot of value and performance for what the bike costs. Now the FTR or Challenger engine in the new Chief….that would have really been something.
 
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