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Replacing TS-111 1st-gen Pistons with 2nd-gen Pistons

7K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  cmoalem 
#1 ·
I am planning to replace the original pistons in my 2014 Chieftain with the redesigned pistons that were first installed in 2018 TS-111 engines to eliminate clacking noise. To keep costs to a minimum, I'll be doing the work myself when I get snowed in next winter (the cost upgrading to a big bore kit is out of the question).

Most say putting new pistons in old cylinders is a very bad idea unless the old cylinders are bored or re-honed first and the pistons sized accordingly. I'm wondering if that is always true with the Nikasil plated cylinders in the TS 111.

Two ways to go:
1. Install slightly-used pistons and cylinders from a 2020 engine that were replaced with big bore pistons and cylinders
2. Install new pistons in the original cylinders (assuming they are in good visual condition / not scored).

If you have direct technical experience with TS-111 Nikasil plated cylinders, I'd appreciate hearing what you believe is the best way to go and why:
 
#4 ·
Tuning didn't fix my clack, but I agree it may be wiser to try tuning first!
 
#5 ·
I don't know if you can go with 2020... didn't they change the throttle body to 60mm?... the heads are definitely different... but doing the work yourself it shouldn't be to costly... lots of 111's around after the big bore kits are done... check it out before you spend the bucks.. I know when my dealer has his swap meet you can buy kits all day long for $100 and if you wait until the end you can get them for $50... after that trash can here they come...
 
#7 ·
I agree that PV3 (or PVCX) tune would be very helpful and give me a performance increase. Something I will probably do at some point in time. The PV3 is about $400 plus a custom tune is about $300, making this a pricey option. And while likely, there is no guarantee a PV3 tune will eliminate the piston clacking.

I am happy with the performance of my 2014. It is my understanding that Stage-2 cams do not offer much of a performance increase over the 2014 cams (which are much "hotter" than the cams that came in the 2015-2017 TS-111s). Plus stage-2 cams require stage-1 intake and stage-1 mufflers, making this a pricey option that does not eliminate the piston clacking.

Two new pistons from Polaris cost about $300. Or I can get almost new 2020 pistons & cylinders from a friend at a dealership for the cost of shipping. My only other cost (since I am doing the work myself when I can not ride due to snow) is the cost of the gaskets and parts needed to complete the job. These are the only options that are guaranteed to eliminate the piston clacking, minimize potential long-term engine wear and are the least pricey. Plus I would enjoy doing the work, get to verify the condition of all the top-end parts and make sure the assembly is done correctly to spec.

I see my best options as:
1. Install slightly-used pistons and cylinders from a 2020 engine that were replaced with big bore pistons and cylinders
2. Install new pistons in the original cylinders (assuming they are in good visual condition / not scored).

The question I need some expert advice on is (with TS-111 Nikasil plated cylinders) which is the best way to go and why.

Thanks!
 
#9 ·
You cannot use 2020 pistons in your 2014. 2020 models are TS116 engines.

You could up the compression on your TS111 with pistons from Indian Vtwin performance. He can check and re-hone your cylinders and provide and fit his pistons, which are much better then OEM. He has the correct Nikasill hones to do the job. If they did need re-plating he has that ability as well. Or he can check your cylinders, re-hone and supply the OEM 2018-2019 pistons fitted.
 
#14 ·
If you can get brand new cylinders and pistons for the price of shipping, get them. If you end up not using them I'll double your money for them. But I can't imagine a reason to use old parts when you have new parts.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
They are not brand new, but close — removed from a new bike by the dealer before being upgraded with a big bore kit.
So The parts will have a few miles on them from the factory test and dealer set-up test ride, etc.
 
#17 ·
I agree with your recommendation — the PV3 tune with help from CraigB might cure the piston clack noise (and also give me a performance increase). This is something I would very much like to do.

The thing that is holding me back at this time is the cost — PV3 is about $400 plus a custom tune is about $300, making this a pricey option. And while likely it will work, even CraigB says there is no guarantee it will eliminate the piston clacking.
 
#18 ·
Craig tried to help me with my 2014 clacker but the noise never went away. We tried many tunes, the performance and ride-ability went up considerably but the clack never left. Some do others don't.
Some clackering is caused by a bad timing and can usually be tuned out, some like mine are mechanical clackers and it has no change. One good way to determine this is to put some octane boost in the tank and take it for a spin. If the clack changes in amplitude then a tuner and a good tune might get it down to a reasonable level. If like mine it doesn't change then you have piston slap and/or stack tolerance problems. I am convinced the only way to get rid of that noise is new pistons or the 116 BBK. Some have said the clack goes away with just new 2018 pistons, some say it didn't help them. I finally broke down and had the 116 BBK installed and I am happy to say the clack has finally been fix on my bike. (so far anyway, but I'm confident).
On a final note the Indian rep who finally stepped up and helped me out stated that she had spoken to one of the engineers at Indian Corp and he said the new pistons may or may not stop the noise.
He also stated that the 116 BBK would clear up the noise. Of course the TS111 doesn't make a clack noise and "it's all normal" anyway.:rolleyes:
 
#20 ·
Are you doing the work yourself?... if you are, why not get the updated valve springs too... when you swap it all around and in the future want more performance you could go to Lloyds 585 cams... according to most dyno sheets a tuned 111 with Lloyds cams or Indians stage III cams puts out about the same performance as a big bore... the price would be quite a bit less
 
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#24 · (Edited)
My 2024 Chieftain no longer clacks . . . It doesn’t do anything anymore. Do to rear brakes damaged at an Indian dealer and consequently not being able to stop soon enough, on August 31st I had my first motorcycle accident in 50 years. And due to the front end & fork damage, etc., my beautiful Chieftain was declared a total loss. Not sure what I will be riding a year from now when I finish rehab (assuming my left shoulder and arm are able to work correctly again).
 
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