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Red & Black ChiefMaster
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Last fall I decided I would put Lloyd'z Arrowhead intake on my bike. That was based on it's look (the best to my eyes), and how it cleared the view for our beautiful engine...





Last week I downloaded the installation instructions, and was shocked by a few things...


1. Potential for throttle body parts flying into the engine?
Contrary to Indian and most other intakes (including Lloyd'z other two intakes) which have the throttle body OUTSIDE of the filter, here the whole throttle body is actually INSIDE the filter. This is quite uncommon I think. If something would be to loosen up (a clip, the tag on the throttle body wire, ...), it would make it's way into the engine.
a) stock filter goes against a back plate that isolates the throttle body exterior from the filtered air. (Similar setup for Lloyd'z other two Indian air boxes, the Indian stage one, ...)
Auto part Product Engine Automotive design Vehicle



b) same for Wimmer
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c) but Arrowhead has the whole throttle body inside the filter
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2. Unwanted exposure of throttle body exterior to oil.
The whole throttle body exterior, including the sensor and the electrical wires, is exposed to the oil residues that eventually make their way inside the filter. Could have long term effect on throttle body itself...


3. Path for UN-FILTERED air to enter the engine
Since the whole throttle body is inside the filter, the throttle body wire has to exit. This is done via the stock rubber grommet, which is not hermetic. I think air can enter thru that grommet...
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So... although this was my number ONE choice in terms of look, this internal design got my worried...

So, I than considered the Vicbagger Venom Plenum (and the similar Arlen Ness)... highly functional and performance is great, but hides the front cylinder, and I almost have that style on my 109 (two spikes intake), so wanted different.

I finally decided to go for the new Indian Stage 1 intake... looks okay, and theoretically very functional (did not find dyno data yet).

I know Lloyd'z has top products... but I am not sure about this one... seems more like a good-looking design with non-ideal functionality...

So... what do you think? Am I worrying for nothing?
 

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Last fall I decided I would put Lloyd'z Arrowhead intake on my bike. That was based on it's look (the best to my eyes), and how it cleared the view for our beautiful engine...





Last week I downloaded the installation instructions, and was shocked by a few things...


1. Potential for throttle body parts flying into the engine?
Contrary to Indian and most other intakes (including Lloyd'z other two intakes) which have the throttle body OUTSIDE of the filter, here the whole throttle body is actually INSIDE the filter. This is quite uncommon I think. If something would be to loosen up (a clip, the tag on the throttle body wire, ...), it would make it's way into the engine.
a) stock filter goes against a back plate that isolates the throttle body exterior from the filtered air. (Similar setup for Lloyd'z other two Indian air boxes, the Indian stage one, ...)
View attachment 220369


b) same for Wimmer
View attachment 220377


c) but Arrowhead has the whole throttle body inside the filter
View attachment 220385




2. Unwanted exposure of throttle body exterior to oil.
The whole throttle body exterior, including the sensor and the electrical wires, is exposed to the oil residues that eventually make their way inside the filter. Could have long term effect on throttle body itself...


3. Path for UN-FILTERED air to enter the engine
Since the whole throttle body is inside the filter, the throttle body wire has to exit. This is done via the stock rubber grommet, which is not hermetic. I think air can enter thru that grommet...
View attachment 220393



So... although this was my number ONE choice in terms of look, this internal design got my worried...

So, I than considered the Vicbagger Venom Plenum (and the similar Arlen Ness)... highly functional and performance is great, but hides the front cylinder, and I almost have that style on my 109 (two spikes intake), so wanted different.

I finally decided to go for the new Indian Stage 1 intake... looks okay, and theoretically very functional (did not find dyno data yet).

I know Lloyd'z has top products... but I am not sure about this one... seems more like a good-looking design with non-ideal functionality...

So... what do you think? Am I worrying for nothing?
Excellent post - I too think you may be onto something here and concur with your hesitation.
 

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Last fall I decided I would put Lloyd'z Arrowhead intake on my bike. That was based on it's look (the best to my eyes), and how it cleared the view for our beautiful engine...





Last week I downloaded the installation instructions, and was shocked by a few things...


1. Potential for throttle body parts flying into the engine?
Contrary to Indian and most other intakes (including Lloyd'z other two intakes) which have the throttle body OUTSIDE of the filter, here the whole throttle body is actually INSIDE the filter. This is quite uncommon I think. If something would be to loosen up (a clip, the tag on the throttle body wire, ...), it would make it's way into the engine.
a) stock filter goes against a back plate that isolates the throttle body exterior from the filtered air. (Similar setup for Lloyd'z other two Indian air boxes, the Indian stage one, ...)
View attachment 220369


b) same for Wimmer
View attachment 220377


c) but Arrowhead has the whole throttle body inside the filter
View attachment 220385




2. Unwanted exposure of throttle body exterior to oil.
The whole throttle body exterior, including the sensor and the electrical wires, is exposed to the oil residues that eventually make their way inside the filter. Could have long term effect on throttle body itself...


3. Path for UN-FILTERED air to enter the engine
Since the whole throttle body is inside the filter, the throttle body wire has to exit. This is done via the stock rubber grommet, which is not hermetic. I think air can enter thru that grommet...
View attachment 220393



So... although this was my number ONE choice in terms of look, this internal design got my worried...

So, I than considered the Vicbagger Venom Plenum (and the similar Arlen Ness)... highly functional and performance is great, but hides the front cylinder, and I almost have that style on my 109 (two spikes intake), so wanted different.

I finally decided to go for the new Indian Stage 1 intake... looks okay, and theoretically very functional (did not find dyno data yet).

I know Lloyd'z has top products... but I am not sure about this one... seems more like a good-looking design with non-ideal functionality...

So... what do you think? Am I worrying for nothing?
Interesting conjecture, I hope you are wrong, but you make a compelling argument.

Dave
 

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Well the amount of unfiltered air coming through that little space that might or might not exist around the wire is probably not a problem. Most air filtration systems are not 100% airtight through the filter.

As far as throttle body assemblies being downstream of the filter, isn't this standard fare for all automotive applications, including most racing engines?
I know a motorcycle vibrates more than an auto engine, but racing engines take a hell of a beating and I never hear about engines blowing due to throttle body parts being sucked in.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
 
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Red & Black ChiefMaster
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628 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, I was going from memory about that grommet from the last time I took my air box apart... At 50, memory not so great so I had to go check...

A picture is worth a 1000 words...
Blue Light Darkness Water Automotive lighting


How big is that gap? a 2mm Allen key can slide with no friction at all, and a 2.5mm Allen key slides with slight friction... So I would guess around 2.2mm...

Picture with a 2.5mm Allen key in the gap
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From the K&N web site ( K&N Air Filter Facts You Should Know ):

"Studies have shown most engine wear is caused by particles 10 to 20 microns in size. K&N air filters, like most quality disposable air filters, provide excellent filtration of these particles."


So... we try to reduce engine wear by putting a filter than provides excellent filtration for particles that are 10 microns in size...

And we leave a gap for particles that are 2000 microns in size!!!

If 10-20 microns particles can cause engine wear... I wonder what 2000 microns particles will do??

I think I might have just convince myself that I was not worrying for nothing...

That said, I almost bought this intake air box anyway. I figured I could patch that gap from behind (with Gorilla tape for example). But in this end I decided to go against it.

For those that have this air box, I would recommend patching that grommet gap somehow...
 

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Red & Black ChiefMaster
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628 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
And, regarding parts that could potentially come off within the filter (although not likely to happen often, if at all).

This tape will start to degrade eventually... probably not that bad if it gets into cylinder... would just burn...
Auto part Hand



Although this clip appears to be solidly in place, it could potentially slide out...
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And these clips... most likely would not come off... but 100% certain they would absolutely never come off, even after 10 years and 200,000 km?
Photograph Blue Product Snapshot Line
 

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Red & Black ChiefMaster
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628 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Another member has reported that some have observed that these air boxes lead to dirty throttle bodies...

Lloydz Arrowhead A/C Sucking Sound ?

"I don't have a stake in this in any way, but I was talking to an engine builder/tuner at Daytona this past week and he has had 3 bikes in with this air cleaner installed. We didn't really talk about the performance of the unit per se, but he shared that in all 3 cases the throttle bodies had enough dirt in them that it was affecting engine performance. So I guess if you have one of these, you'll want to keep your eye on it and make sure it gets cleaned a few times a year, depending on mileage."
 
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