[Dvance800cc]

I'm currently working on accessories for looks and comfort for my 2019 Chieftain. But after that (maybe during the winter) I may consider some performance updates. I'm perfectly happy with the stock sound of my pipes and don't want the engine noise that would come with an open air filter (before anyone says there is no increased noise, I just don't think that is true).

So I say all this to question if the PV3 tuner really makes a difference on the 2019s that have ride modes? Yes, ride modes only change the throttle response. So my question is, is that what the tuner does or does it really make more power? (Side note I could be talked into TAB 2.5"s or 1.75's and a K&N filter with a tuner). I just don't want my bike to be loud.

 

[Baron58]

I'm currently working on accessories for looks and comfort for my 2019 Chieftain. But after that (maybe during the winter) I may consider some performance updates. I'm perfectly happy with the stock sound of my pipes and don't want the engine noise that would come with an open air filter (before anyone says there is no increased noise, I just don't think that is true).

So I say all this to question if the PV3 tuner really makes a difference on the 2019s that have ride modes? Yes, ride modes only change the throttle response. So my question is, is that what the tuner does or does it really make more power? (Side note I could be talked into TAB 2.5"s or 1.75's and a K&N filter with a tuner). I just don't want my bike to be loud.

Good question! The PV3 is more of an interface to the ECU and not really a tuner at all. It allows many of the ECU parameters to be changed (Fueling, Ignition, speed limiters, rev limiters, adjustment of the DBW (drive by wire) tables and literally hundereds of more parameters.

The answer depends on what you want.


Canned stock tunes or custom dyno or logging tunes.

Canned tunes from Fuel Motto and Dynojet for various configurations, leave the stock fueling the same as factory in the "Closed loop" area of operation. This is where the O2 sensors adjust the AF ratio to the lean 14.7.1 setting. If you are a average rider meaning no drag racing at the stop light or high speed hijinks you are in closed loop most of the time. But at the higher power settings or loads on the engine you run in open loop, and that is where the more significant changes to fueling is done with canned tunes done.

Many custom tunes run the AF ratio so the bike runs in open loop all the time, no O2 control, and richer AF mixtures across the board. This will be a bigger difference.


The biggest difference people notice with the aftermarket canned tunes has a lot more to do with the DBW tables being changed than everything else. When I compare different tunes on my bike, I always match the drive by wire tables so the throttle response is exactly the same so I am only comparing the fueling and ignition response between both tunes. Yes with the aftermarket canned tunes you will make more HP, but that is when you are at very high power, which many never run at anyway.

So a PV3 is going to make some improvements. But how much depends how much you want to pay for dyno or remote tuning, or just stick with canned tunes.

I have a PV-CX unit which I use, it is the older version of the PV3 which is the current version.

 

[Dvance800cc]

Thanks @Baron58. I'm an average rider, no drag racing but as with most of us I will get on the throttle from time to time (but not too crazy those days are 30 years behind me). Sounds like for my moderate style of riding I'd see some small improvements? To your point I'm not interested in paying for a dyno or lots of remote tunes.

 

[Baron58]

Thanks @Baron58. I'm an average rider, no drag racing but as with most of us I will get on the throttle from time to time (but not too crazy those days are 30 years behind me). Sounds like for my moderate style of riding I'd see some small improvements? To your point I'm not interested in paying for a dyno or lots of remote tunes.

You would see some small improvements, especially starting in cold weather and higher power like when you are passing on the interstate.

Here is a link to some dyno charts with a canned stock enhanced tune and factory stock.

Dyno Charts - Fuel Moto University

Below you will find an assortment of sample dyno charts for various Harley combinations, this is a work in progress. We will be adding more & more Harley charts as well as Metric & Euro charts as we go from the 2000+ bikes we have tuned over the past 2 decades. Note the data in [...]

university.fuelmotousa.com

 

[Indianster]

I'll add onto @Baron58's good stuff..

Any owner of any stock (or near stock) 111, needs to buy a Fuel Moto PV3 and flash their Improved Stock tune - and this needs to be done yesterday, not tomorrow, here's why:

1. To get rid of the Polaris Detune that lives inside your ECM on your bike ( the 4700 rpm power drop-off on the little red lines..)
2. To get a "whole new bike" to ride, power-wise - which is what happens when you achieve elevated power curves over the entire RPM range ( the dark red lines are significantly above the little red lines from beginning to end) .. It doesn't matter how you ride - Wussie or Hooligan - you are on a bike that has more power at any throttle setting, at any speed, at anytime, and all the time...

You've been living in a dream world Neo, don't waste any more time with your 72-73 hp bike, wake up and wake it up !
**
Thanks to @Morphy for doing the above dyno chart overlay - clearly showing the unfortunate reality for those riding around on 111's with stock programming..

111 Polaris detune - A dirty little secret !

This thread is a compendium of information and knowledge regarding a "detune" on the 111's . I have simply done the "grunt work" of assembling it.. First up (below) is Racnray's top post on his thread - Rider magazine test of the 2019 Chieftain Quote: "Good article but in my print version...

www.indianmotorcycles.net

 

[RonW64]

I've made a few performance upgrades to my '19 Chieftain Limited. I installed Indian Stage 1 Slip-ons and a high flow air intake. I did purchase the PV3 from Fuel Moto, and they provided a flash to match the changes I made to the bike. From personal experience, I can tell you it made a significant positive improvement to the overall performance of the bike. I was experiencing a slight hesitation in throttle response, as well as a lot of popping on deceleration. Once I did the flash from Fuel Moto, those two issues were gone, and the bike ran smoother. Since then, I gutted the catalytic converter. The popping on decel I experienced before came back. I emailed Fuel Moto on a Sunday, not expecting a response until Monday at the earliest. Craig from Fuel Moto responded to me within ten minutes . . . ON A SUNDAY! He sent me a new flash, and it helped. I did a 1600 mile trip (Blue Ridge Parkway, Tail of the Dragon, Foothills Parkway, Cherahola Skyway, Knoxville, Nashville, and home to Southwest Virginia) last week. I was still having some minor issues with throttle response and popping on decel, and emailed Craig yesterday (Saturday). He responded within 30 minutes . . . ON A SATURDAY. He sent me a new flash, and I installed it today. It's been raining on and off all day, so I wasn't able to ride to test the new flash. I'm not knowledgeable enough to give you a lot of technical information . . . all I can give is my personal experience. If you start making performance changes to your bike, a tuner will most definitely make a positive difference. And if you buy one, I recommend Fuel Moto.

 

[Dvance800cc]

@RonW64 your type of opinion is what I'm looking for (not that I don't appreciate the tech guys opinions) but I'm not that technical on these things, not a total dingbat but like hearing the real world seat of the pants experiences. Thanks all that have responded, I'm still buying shinny bits but may be ready by winter to do some performance updates.

 

[rsing2]

I never thought I'd ever buy a tuner. I assumed what ever the engineers put on the bike at the factory would plenty enough to pull me down the road and I'd be happy. I decided to put stage one pipes and breather on the bike not for performance but to customize the looks. I decided based on what I'd read to take a chance on dropping an extra $400 to Fuelmoto for the PV3.

I can tell you without a bunch of charts and techy stuff that the bike pulls so much harder than it it used to. I was honestly shocked at how different the bike rode.

My only regret is that I waited a year. I should have brought that bike home with the tuner attached.

 

[Baron58]

I never thought I'd ever buy a tuner. I assumed what ever the engineers put on the bike at the factory would plenty enough to pull me down the road and I'd be happy. I decided to put stage one pipes and breather on the bike not for performance but to customize the looks. I decided based on what I'd read to take a chance on dropping an extra $400 to Fuelmoto for the PV3.

I can tell you without a bunch of charts and techy stuff that the bike pulls so much harder than it it used to. I was honestly shocked at how different the bike rode.

My only regret is that I waited a year. I should have brought that bike home with the tuner attached.

The guys at the factory could tune these bikes perfectly if they were legally allowed to. But to EPA rules they can't.