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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some interesting information in this story.

From The Sioux City Journal:

[link='http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/business/local/article_d6eb1603-7aa6-5c00-82f6-369fa86a0e25.html']http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/business/local/article_d6eb1603-7aa6-5c00-82f6-369fa86a0e25.html[/link]
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I read somewhere that Indians were hand built. Is Polaris hand building them or are they on the same assembly line as Victory bikes? If not all Victory dealers can be Indian dealers, then can you order an Indian from any Victory dealer?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The paragraph that caught my eye said: 'Victory sales went from, $41 million in 2010 to $76 million in 2011.' Impressive. Good.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
on road vehicles sales went that far, NOT VICTORY's themselves. I'm not sure what they all they include but it's far more than Victory's. The GEM(electric vehicles) come to mind as one of the on road brands
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Victory's are hand built. The difference with the Indians was they were built by two people. The Victory's are built by hand by many people as it goes down the line. For all I know; they are building my bike in this vid since I got mine in Nov. 2010 and this was published in Oct. 2010. :)

[video]1377[/video]
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
FINALLY, someone's posted a rough count of bikes sold....

Polaris Victory cruisers are sold through about 350 dealerships and had sales of about 7,500 units last year, said Robert Pandya, external relations manager for Polaris Motorcycles.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm not sure how to read this? Will Victory become 2nd fiddle?


Pandya explained that in some ways the market for the Indian is actually bigger than what the Victory enjoys because there are more people who intrigued by a more heritage type of motorcycle.

'In terms of broad consumer street appeal there are more people who will walk up to an Indian with interest than a Victory. It's America's oldest motorcycle brand. So we're bookending the American motorcycle scene,' he said.


Later in the story I read this:

Pandya noted that he expects the Indian brand to become better-known and more established. He likened the dealership situation to GM having Chevrolet and Cadillac dealerships split, but didn't say Polaris would follow the GM development plan.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I guess time will tell. One thing is for sure. Victory is a niche market at only 7500 made per year.

I like riding something different. Too bad some of my Harley riding 'friends' don't see it that way. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
One of the things that swayed me away from a Harley is the 'drink the Kool-Aid' attitude of a lot of the Harley riders; the ones who try to convince you that Harley's are the only 'real' motorcycles in existence. Now it sounds like Polaris is taking a page right out of the Harley play book.
The Indian experience is a little bit more of a premium experience and street creds,' Pandya said
Personally I don't give ANYONE 'street creds' because of the bike they ride. (But to be honest I don't give the 50ish cc scooter guys much creds either :001_rolleyes: )
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I do not see Indians coming down in price. Neither do I see them becoming a major brand. They simply will not. They are a rich man's bike.
I've owned plenty and only one Harley, a new Nightster which I dearly loved, however most were metric asians and I just don't see the price point being paid for the Indian by most American's no matter the 'heritage'. Harley has the same or even better heritage, they are continuous manufacture and are an American success story.

I just don't find Harley's all that attractive. I have a few I will look at but none I want to own and the dealers tend to be arrogant.

I'm not a Kool-Aide drinker, I think for myself.

I love American made and not real fond of Unions. Sorry, don't want to offend anyone here on the forum. I have many friends who are tradesman and I support the trade unions but the 'walk in lock step' unions that force dues and force the trends of voting I cannot tolerate.
If I asked my union neighbor who refused to acknowledge that I even owned a motorcycle until I bought my first one if he would accept my Victory I bet he would not. Someone tell me is Victory a UAW plant?
I'm all for UAW if they do the right thing and take good care of the company.
I think every employee should treat the plant and brand as though it was theirs and not bust things up or strike it.
I wish every union plant was employee owned, then the union employees would understand how hard it is to own and run a company.
Oh well, sorry fellas for getting on a soap box. I really want Harley to do well and come out with good engineered bikes. I also want Victory to remain high on the hog (no pun intended) and do very well. I just want American's to have jobs and feel proud of the brand they work hard to create.

Amen?
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The Victory plant is not a Union shop.

That doesn't mean they don't get paid well or have good benefits though...

I supported Unions until they went all political. Now I see them more as a detriment rather than an asset.

JMHO
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
7034 said:
I do not see Indians coming down in price. Neither do I see them becoming a major brand. They simply will not. They are a rich man's bike.
But let's face the facts, the name Indian has a higher recognition factor than Victory and that alone gives the Polaris Marketing Folks some new opportunities. I think it's reasonable thought that Polaris could be slowly expanding the Indian lineup to include models that start in price much lower than the current Indian models.

Remember, what we see now is just the beginning of Polaris's plans for Indian. What we see five years from now will most likely be quite different, but it will most likely retain some of the Heritage of Indian.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
expanded line of Indians

2 said:
But let's face the facts, the name Indian has a higher recognition factor than Victory and that alone gives the Polaris Marketing Folks some new opportunities. I think it's reasonable thought that Polaris could be slowly expanding the Indian lineup to include models that start in price much lower than the current Indian models.
Remember, what we see now is just the beginning of Polaris's plans for Indian. What we see five years from now will most likely be quite different, but it will most likely retain some of the Heritage of Indian.
You know Andy I agree. I was just thinking about current models. Man I wanted a Bomber. I 'm a sucker for flat paint!

I can see Polaris having the ability to design some nice units that are entry level bikes. I don't see that happening with any of the Vic's though so it will be a wait and see.

Harley has two or more good entry level bikes that compete with BMW. I know BMW is a different kind of bike but just saying quality compared to quality.

I found recently that Honda Gold Wings really hold their value, perhaps more then Harley too. I think Victory's should given the entry level costs of 12k ore more.

Thanks Andy
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Victory is in the cruiser market and they have two entry level bikes, maybe three.

The High Ball and Vegas 8 Ball.

If someone wants something smaller they will have to start with another brand and work their way up.

From my perspective; the Vegas class bikes are small but then I've been riding touring bikes for over 10 years now (along with cruisers :)).
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
4106 said:
The Victory plant is not a Union shop.

That doesn't mean they don't get paid well or have good benefits though...

I supported Unions until they went all political. Now I see them more as a detriment rather than an asset.

JMHO
That's great to hear! Unions were created to protect the workers from being steam-rollered by money grubbing executives. They certainly had their place & ole Jimmy has some concrete shoes somewhere because of some of his tactics. I think the USA is seeing some pivotal changes in our labor where the workers are tired of doing more with less & the shareholders & executives are raping everyone. I think we will see an increase in union activity, but I'm not sure how it will end up.

I too can't stand the big unions screaming their political support for all these worthless creep politicians. A company that can make great products AND pay their employees a good wage while making a profit is truly a gem to behold!
Victory - BOOYA!!!
Unions - Faaa-Geeet-aaa-Bout-It!!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
2827 said:
I'm not sure how to read this? Will Victory become 2nd fiddle?


Pandya explained that in some ways the market for the Indian is actually bigger than what the Victory enjoys because there are more people who intrigued by a more heritage type of motorcycle.

'In terms of broad consumer street appeal there are more people who will walk up to an Indian with interest than a Victory. It's America's oldest motorcycle brand. So we're bookending the American motorcycle scene,' he said.


Later in the story I read this:

Pandya noted that he expects the Indian brand to become better-known and more established. He likened the dealership situation to GM having Chevrolet and Cadillac dealerships split, but didn't say Polaris would follow the GM development plan.
I think it is better to view this from a different approach to marketing. Don't assume that Polaris is trying to 'Drive' the direction of the 2 Brands to where they want them to fit into the marketplace, but rather that Polaris is smart enough to recognize the market dynamics and they are a 'Slotting' their 2 Brands exactly where they belong. A Victory is not a Harley wanna-be (thank goodness for that boldness), and an Indian IS an iconic name that has ability to strike the heart of the old school heritage crowd.

Give Polaris credit for recognizing what they have and knowing how to position them. Indian and H-D are kindred spirits, and with luck will be married.....Victory on the other hand, is a beast of a whole other mother.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I was told by someone who is supposedly 'in the know' and he said the target price range for the indian bike is in the low 20s.

It will be a year or 2 before Polaris has their own NEW Indian line-up, but I can't wait to see what happens. If anyone can make Indian a viable American brand again, it's Polaris.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
1522 said:
Give Polaris credit for recognizing what they have and knowing how to position them. Indian and H-D are kindred spirits, and with luck will be married.....
Don't we currently HAVE the Indian-Victory marriage? 200+ years after the initial battles we finally have an Indian VICTORY!!!

PS - Although others have stated that it will not happen, I can see Polaris leveraging their existing Victory dealer base to PUSH the Indian brand a LOT more than ever was possible previously. Remember that Indian only had/has 30 dealers across the ENTIRE USA when Polaris bought and there was absolutely no marketing/advertising budget available to run TV, Billboard or print ads. These are all things that Polaris has mastered and I expect that once a media blitz and a reasonable ($24K starting price) has been established for Indian that offering the Indian line to the existing Victory dealers would be a 'no-brainer'.
 
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