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I'm anxiously awaiting the snow to go away so I can take a spin on a Challenger. Based on my last go around with a Road Glide, at slow speeds I'd bet the taco truck has the same (or better) handling than the RG.
My shark handles fine at low speed maneuvers. Practicing helps which is true for any bike. Just saying.
 

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My shark handles fine at low speed maneuvers. Practicing helps which is true for any bike. Just saying.
I can't speak for the Road Glide. But my '12 Road King is better/easier to handle at slow speeds than my Vintage. King with a bit less rake and tighter lock to lock steering. Ain't near as purdy as my green'n cream Vintage though.
 

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I'm anxiously awaiting the snow to go away so I can take a spin on a Challenger. Based on my last go around with a Road Glide, at slow speeds I'd bet the taco truck has the same (or better) handling than the RG.
Wait. Has this joke gone over our heads?
Am I the only who has heard the term "handles as well as a taco cart"
I'm pretty sure I'm not and that was a subliminal jab.. lots of other things they could have chosen to pull..... just saying.......
 

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What decade are you from? 😱😁
There not "needed" on anything.. BUT..
Radiators are responsible for:
Higher compression ratios.
More stable temperatures.
More power.
Higher weight limits.
Higher power/efficiency potential.
Longevity.
Smoother.
More Quiet. (From the ugly clickety clackety noises of air cooled)
Better gas mileage.
Cleaner running.
Cooler running.
Longer and fewer maintenance intervals.
(You won't see 10k oil change intervals nor 100k spark plug intervals with out one just to name a couple)
Zero worry while idling or riding slow in traffic.
Less gasket fatigue.
Typically longer warranties.
More stout engine design allowing for better, stiffer more thought out engineering for strategic flexing frame configuration and stressed member architecture. (Which makes for superior ride and handling)
Allows a bike to be made lighter over all with lower CG negating the added 10 pounds of cooling system.

It can be said that the ONE part responsible for a Challenger walking all over the RG is it's radiator, since the challenger has all the above going for it, because of it.
That all said, since most of my bikes have all had one and shared the same benefits while only having had 1 (ONE!) cooling system issue in all my life of riding, beating and crashing bikes since '95. It was on a track bike on a hot day prompted by my own doing. So id say it's been well worth it's "extra cost, weight and complexity".
So when I see a radiator and know what it's worth, it's absolutely gorgeous..
To know, my liquid cooled bike will out do an air cooled in every benchmark available (Except being a curmudgeon yearning for the past) is dead sexy.
😁😁😁
But Over all, your right, there is no "need" for one..
That all sounds good,and might even believe it if it wasn't for all our equipment from bobcats ,manlifts welders,are off road non emission restricted,and are air cooled.less maintenance failures.
 

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I can't speak for the Road Glide. But my '12 Road King is better/easier to handle at slow speeds than my Vintage. King with a bit less rake and tighter lock to lock steering. Ain't near as purdy as my green'n cream Vintage though.
That is true. A willow green Vintage is hard not to look at. Has to be one of the best looking bikes on the road.Can’t argue that.
 

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That all sounds good,and might even believe it if it wasn't for all our equipment from bobcats ,manlifts welders,are off road non emission restricted,and are air cooled.less maintenance failures.
Brute industry goods, Compared to civilian consumer goods that must compete with other refined civilian consumer goods...
Ya, I don't want a light weight carbon fiber hammer either.......
 

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This is pretty much a waste of advertising dollars for Indian. And petty pathetic. Yamaha (Star motorcycles) did the same sort of thing of showing how their V Twins were faster and more powerful than the Harley competition. And that got them nowhere.

All those videos will do is piss off and alienate the Harley faithful. Nobody is going to buy a Challenger because it out raced a Road Glide and or a taco truck. Crotch rockets out race Harley's and Indians all day long.

Indian should put their marketing on about the the features of the challenger, ride, handing, etc.

The irony is Indian says we didn't make a Road Glide clone, yet test ride the Challenger against a Road Glide..................................
 

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This is pretty much a waste of advertising dollars for Indian. And petty pathetic. Yamaha (Star motorcycles) did the same sort of thing of showing how their V Twins were faster and more powerful than the Harley competition. And that got them nowhere.

All those videos will do is piss off and alienate the Harley faithful. Nobody is going to buy a Challenger because it out raced a Road Glide and or a taco truck. Crotch rockets out race Harley's and Indians all day long.

Indian should put their marketing on about the the features of the challenger, ride, handing, etc.

The irony is Indian says we didn't make a Road Glide clone, yet test ride the Challenger against a Road Glide..................................
Very well said


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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This is pretty much a waste of advertising dollars for Indian. And petty pathetic. Yamaha (Star motorcycles) did the same sort of thing of showing how their V Twins were faster and more powerful than the Harley competition. And that got them nowhere.

All those videos will do is piss off and alienate the Harley faithful. Nobody is going to buy a Challenger because it out raced a Road Glide and or a taco truck. Crotch rockets out race Harley's and Indians all day long.

Indian should put their marketing on about the the features of the challenger, ride, handing, etc.

The irony is Indian says we didn't make a Road Glide clone, yet test ride the Challenger against a Road Glide..................................
Nope. Think about the strategy for a second. What is more likely to catch someone’s attention - marketing that says “look I have 122 hp” or “look at this Challenger whip a Road Glide’s ass.”? Not to mention the fact that all these digital ads will link back to the Challenger landing page which will talk about all of the features.

Comparing crotch rockets because they can outrace a Harley and a Challenger that can do the same is a huge waste of your time. The overlap in customer consideration between the 2 classes is nearly (if not outright) non-existent.

You can talk about alienation - and to some extent - that will be true, but I have seen a boatload of comments throughout social and online channels from Harley “faithful” that they are ready to make the switch (if they haven’t already).

Lastly, I see no irony - RG is the class-leading (in terms of sales) bike. Why wouldn’t yo go directly at them?
 

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I can't speak for the Road Glide. But my '12 Road King is better/easier to handle at slow speeds than my Vintage. King with a bit less rake and tighter lock to lock steering. Ain't near as purdy as my green'n cream Vintage though.
Yep Willy, the whole fork rake thing was one of the very reasons I went for a Springfield (25 degree of rake) a couple of years ago and instead of a Vintage (34 degree of rake). And so of course it's no wonder your Road King (26 degree of rake) feels to you like it handles better than your Indian, 'cause it naturally would.

(...although, another thing I like about my Springfield is its much more amount of rear suspension travel it has over any Road King, and even over any Big Twin Harley makes presently from what I understand of their specs)
 

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Yep Willy, the whole fork rake thing was one of the very reasons I went for a Springfield (25 degree of rake) a couple of years ago and instead of a Vintage (34 degree of rake). And so of course it's no wonder your Road King (26 degree of rake) feels to you like it handles better than your Indian, 'cause it naturally would.

(...although, another thing I like about my Springfield is its much more amount of rear suspension travel it has over any Road King, and even over any Big Twin Harley makes presently from what I understand of their specs)
No doubt the suspension on the Vintage (and the other big Indians) is much better than my Road King, no comparison. Another pro handling feature on my King is the 14 inch apes. I find the higher bars provide better leverage during slower speed maneuvering.

As I understand it, the newer Vintage models have gone to the Springfield rake. That's was a good move for I/P as handling should be better. And '19 and up 111s have the improved valve springs and I believe proper pistons. Maybe some day I'll move up to a newer model, but as it is now, me and my '15 Vintage get along just fine (o:
 

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This is pretty much a waste of advertising dollars for Indian. And petty pathetic. Yamaha (Star motorcycles) did the same sort of thing of showing how their V Twins were faster and more powerful than the Harley competition. And that got them nowhere.

All those videos will do is piss off and alienate the Harley faithful. Nobody is going to buy a Challenger because it out raced a Road Glide and or a taco truck. Crotch rockets out race Harley's and Indians all day long.

Indian should put their marketing on about the the features of the challenger, ride, handing, etc.

The irony is Indian says we didn't make a Road Glide clone, yet test ride the Challenger against a Road Glide..................................
Indian is branding themselves as an alternative American motor company that produces better cruisers and they are putting there money where there mouth is. I like the videos because it’ll stir emotions which causes discussion. Sit on them both and it’s an easy choice.
 

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Fact is Harley folks ride Harleys cause they go Potato Potato, Indians dont. HD has an endless performance book filled with cams, jugs, tuners, pipes and endless other stuff - Indian dont. HD has a dealership to hang out in on every corner - Indian dont. HD has been recreating and keeping the archiac push rod V-Twin alive for years and Indian has not.
 

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Fact is Harley folks ride Harleys cause they go Potato Potato, Indians dont. HD has an endless performance book filled with cams, jugs, tuners, pipes and endless other stuff - Indian dont. HD has a dealership to hang out in on every corner - Indian dont. HD has been recreating and keeping the archiac push rod V-Twin alive for years and Indian has not.
And Harley has had its business shrink every year for the last 10 years. Indian has grown the past 6
 

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Not really a fair fight, since the Road Glide is a 22 year old design and even with the “Milwaukee 8” evolution of the Harley Engine, there’s no way it can compete with the 21st century design of the water cooled Indian power plant. Easy to pick a fight when you know there’s no chance you will lose.
 

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And Harley has had its business shrink every year for the last 10 years. Indian has grown the past 6
Not defending HD (just being honest) cause personally I love em both, but when you have successfully designed, developed and marketed your way to the #1 big twin seller in the world and have bragging rights for producing and selling well over 250,000 bikes per year even during bad times (Polaris still does not provide actual unit sales but looking at recall numbers it appears to be under 10,000 per year). It's fairly easy to claim sales increases when you are starting from scratch and your only a few years old and comparing to a company that has been around for decades..
 

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Not really a fair fight, since the Road Glide is a 22 year old design and even with the “Milwaukee 8” evolution of the Harley Engine, there’s no way it can compete with the 21st century design of the water cooled Indian power plant. Easy to pick a fight when you know there’s no chance you will lose.
Exactly my thoughts Gort.. Having come from the Victory background myself and watching with interest the new Yamaha SVTC/Eluder after Polaris closed the Vic line. I was shocked at how repulsed the consumer was with Yamaha deciding to go air cooled/push rod engine.. I actually had a dealership tell me that if Yamaha would have went watercooled/V-4 or V-6 with over 150 HP on the new one instead of jumping on the "lets chase HD" band wagon he could have sold all the new Yams he could get his hands on.. He did sell 2 SVTC's and 1 Eluder in 2 years which he doubled his intitial sales from one year to the next but definitely not a sustainable profit. I am thinking that I/P should be more concerned with how the new Challenger performs in comparison to the Wing and Beemer baggers,, apples to apples so to speak..
 

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Not defending HD (just being honest) cause personally I love em both, but when you have successfully designed, developed and marketed your way to the #1 big twin seller in the world and have bragging rights for producing and selling well over 250,000 bikes per year even during bad times (Polaris still does not provide actual unit sales but looking at recall numbers it appears to be under 10,000 per year). It's fairly easy to claim sales increases when you are starting from scratch and your only a few years old and comparing to a company that has been around for decades..
Your estimates are way off. Let’s assume roughly equal transaction cost per bike between Indian and Harley. Harley had roughly 4.5B in sales revenue (1B in parts/clothes) and Polaris had 580M in motorcycle sales revenue (let’s assume all was Indian...Slingshot, I believe, lost money) in 2019. This is only 8 times the amount of revenue and at a roughly equal transaction price, Indian units sold would be a little more than 30k per year (using 250,000 Harley units as a base - 250k/8) not less than 10k per your estimate. Still a lot less than 250k units, but 3 times the above estimate.

Now factor in the amount of t-shirts and other non-essential BS HD sells, and Indian is probably even higher (yes, I know Indian sells tees too :) ), not to mention the fact that Indian has 1/3 the number of models HD has. If you are Indian, you have too feel pretty good about your position relative to HD.
 
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