As the weather gets warmer (it was 80 today near me), more cagers will be out and not looking for you. I had a lady in a van left turn about 10 yards in front of me while I’m at 45 mph. Have not idea how she missed me, big a$$ Challenger, bright Eagle LED headlight, LED driving lights on and I’m wearing a white shirt. If you’re not an all season rider or new to riding, panic stopping is the first thing that should be on your list other than checking tire pressures. Be safe out there ladies and gentlemen.
Panic stops
Moe1962
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As the weather gets warmer (it was 80 today near me), more cagers will be out and not looking for you. I had a lady in a van left turn about 10 yards in front of me while I’m at 45 mph. Have not idea how she missed me, big a$$ Challenger, bright Eagle LED headlight, LED driving lights on and I’m wearing a white shirt. If you’re not an all season rider or new to riding, panic stopping is the first thing that should be on your list other than checking tire pressures. Be safe out there ladies and gentlemen.
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3,671 Posts
It’s worth getting the feel for the abs in a parking lot. You can really hammer the brakes on these big bastards!
Panic stops (in a straight line) release and swerve … sometimes stopping alone is not enough…
I could only brake, no swerving. She was headed towards me on a two lane road. I don’t think she was on a phone, but I was busy trying to save myself and not have the car behind me make me into a sandwich too.
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I had a truck do a u turn in front of me today but stopped and had to reverse becuase he couldnt make it. But the kicker the road speed limit is 50 and he did it right in front of 3 full lanes of vehicles. Like 5+ cars were on thier horns. Thank god for ABS. But then I got right next to his window and flipped him off and he took off.
Got the old -vehicle left turn in front of me 60+ yrs ago. I was lucky that I got sideways at 40 mph about 15-20 foot from the car as bike went into the qtr panel, as I went over the trunk. Just banged up/road rash no broken bones. Lesson learned-only way to survive is pretend your invisible. BTW if bikes had ABS back then, in this situation I would not have been able to low side on the bike and probably have died -going straight into the side of the car. IMO.
At the end of last season someone pulled up to their stop sign, I did not have a stop sign. They looked dead at me as I traveled the 40 yards towards that intersection, waited until I was like 5 yards away then pulled out. I had to swerve into the grass shoulder, while looking at the front end of the car just inches away from me! They knew the had f'd up and drove like 10mph (they were now behind me) as to not come anywhere near me and chance being close to me at the next potential stop where i could confront them. I was hot, but then thought, nothing happened so just keep it moving. Be careful out there indeed.
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I like the title of this thread. I've driven and ridden a LOT and consider myself quite good, at least at the art of driving and riding on public streets. I am not making any claims of speed or wheelies etc. You can practice emergency stops, but you can't practice panic stops. A panic stop is what the title says, panic. All skill is out the window. There are only two ways to deal with panic stops.
1. Avoid them by paying attention, staying out of situations where they happen, and being prepared to brake.
2. ABS
I've only had one panic stop on a bike, and ABS saved me. It was my fault. I was taking off in a line of cars, not giving myself enough room to the car in front, not expecting the car in front to all of the sudden slam on their brakes (probably because of a car in front of them) and I panic braked (100% brake instantly). Keep in mind that I was accelerating right before I panic braked. On an older bike my front wheel would have locked. I may or may not have recovered. Fortunately, I didn't have to find out.
I am just saying that there is a distinction between emergency braking (that is practiceable and pretty easy with ABS today) and panic braking.
1. Avoid them by paying attention, staying out of situations where they happen, and being prepared to brake.
2. ABS
I've only had one panic stop on a bike, and ABS saved me. It was my fault. I was taking off in a line of cars, not giving myself enough room to the car in front, not expecting the car in front to all of the sudden slam on their brakes (probably because of a car in front of them) and I panic braked (100% brake instantly). Keep in mind that I was accelerating right before I panic braked. On an older bike my front wheel would have locked. I may or may not have recovered. Fortunately, I didn't have to find out.
I am just saying that there is a distinction between emergency braking (that is practiceable and pretty easy with ABS today) and panic braking.
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127 Posts
I have been surprised at how much they help keep the tires from Skidding! And you can stop BIG Bikes Quickly!
2021 Indian Challenger Limited Deepwater Metalic
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8,139 Posts
Glad you were able to minimize the crash and your injuries. Agree 100% about riding like your invisible.
I completely disagree with this part of your post however. Staying up on two wheels instead of low siding is always the better way. Low siding is a crash. Rubber has a much higher ability to slow you down than metal. Wheels that are at the limit of locking up also slow you down more than ones that have locked up and are skidding. If you had ABS back then you may have been able to avoid the crash all together.
I realize that you probably total disagree with what I'm saying and that's fine. I hope that two adults can have a disagreement about something without getting huffy and offended. I am just posting this so that others can look at the facts and make their own decisions. There are several video that talk about it on YouTube. Here are a couple.
According to actual tests of ABS, it does not slow you down faster than a braking system without ABS. It stops the brakes from locking up, and it does this by pulsing the brake system when the wheel sensors detect a difference in wheel speed. They installed ABS, not to make stopping quicker, but to help with panic stops where braking might be too much by, as you said, locking up the rear wheel or the front. Most sport bikes will do stoppies, where the front brakes are so powerful that the rear lifts off the pavement. But in reality, 70% of your braking is the front brake, and you want maximum performance from it.
whenever ABS kicks in, the pulse you feel is the brake being let off by the ABS system, and just like a normal brake, if your pull and release the lever rapidly, it will stop, but at an increase in distance. ABS is a good system, but on dry pavement, with no dirt, oil, or gravel, it will actually increase the distance of your panic stop.
An experienced or professional motorcycle racer, will not use ABS on his or her bike, as it can’t stop as fast coming into a corner, as he or she can with a practiced right hand.
I understand that there are many who rely on ABS and swear by it, and that’s cool. I, myself, would rather modulate the braking myself.
Charlie
whenever ABS kicks in, the pulse you feel is the brake being let off by the ABS system, and just like a normal brake, if your pull and release the lever rapidly, it will stop, but at an increase in distance. ABS is a good system, but on dry pavement, with no dirt, oil, or gravel, it will actually increase the distance of your panic stop.
An experienced or professional motorcycle racer, will not use ABS on his or her bike, as it can’t stop as fast coming into a corner, as he or she can with a practiced right hand.
I understand that there are many who rely on ABS and swear by it, and that’s cool. I, myself, would rather modulate the braking myself.
Charlie
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4,129 Posts
I believe that you are correct about stopping distances with and without ABS. But as you state, that is hardly the point. The point is to keep you from locking up your brakes as that causes a skid and potentially a slide that you probably will not recover from.
And while I think it's great the professional riders can do better without ABS, the vaaaaast majority us are not professionals
While I've been riding for 50 years, I can tell you that I've had well less than a handful of panic stops in my life. And don't tell me to practice them because you can't practice them if you know, in advance, where you are going to grab the brakes. That's not panic, that's planned.
So, I'm very happy with my ABS, it works right there nicely with my cruise control and stereo keeping me happily, and safely, pounding out the miles.
BD
My Roadmaster is my first motorcycle with ABS. That was one of the things that attracted me to it.
However, my biggest fear with ABS is that I will forget I have it and in a panic situation not apply the brakes hard enough. After 30+ years of riding It's going to be difficult to undo the subconscious thought pattern of trying to keep the wheels from locking up.
I've practiced with the ABS so I know what it feels like, but as others have mentioned once the panic situation happens it changes everything.
However, my biggest fear with ABS is that I will forget I have it and in a panic situation not apply the brakes hard enough. After 30+ years of riding It's going to be difficult to undo the subconscious thought pattern of trying to keep the wheels from locking up.
I've practiced with the ABS so I know what it feels like, but as others have mentioned once the panic situation happens it changes everything.
2021 Indian Challenger Limited Deepwater Metalic
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8,139 Posts
If a person stops correctly ABS will never engage. ABS is only valuable where’d the driver/rider exceeds the braking threshold. So yes a braking system can only stop you so fast. Adding ABS does not improve the ability of the braking system to stop.
ABS does improve the braking of the vehicle when the driver/rider makes a mistake that would’ve locked the wheels thereby reducing the braking efficiency of the braking system.
It’s all about how you spin the answer
No spin necessary. As Walter Brennan said, in The Guns of Will Sonnett, “No Brag, Just Fact”.
ABS is designed to not lock the front wheel in LOW TRACTION stopping. As in, gravel, dirt, wet roads, or icy conditions. Anytime the ABS kicks in, and you feel the vibration of the brakes being cycled on and off rapidly, it is inhibiting the distance of your stopping, whether it is a panic stop or not. If it was superior to a standard braking system on dry pavement, racers would be using it. Even grabbing a healthy handful of front brake, you would be hard pressed to lock the front wheel on most cruiser type of motorcycles On dry pavement. On a sport bike, say, a GSXR1000, the dual rotor six piston calipers, can induce the front wheel to lock, but the bike would be lifting the rear wheel off the ground.
ABS is a great technology. But, it is designed To be used in low traction surfaces, for best effect.
Charlie
2021 Indian Challenger Limited Deepwater Metalic
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8,139 Posts
I agree that you and I don't agree on how ABS works or it's value.
Have a nice day
Thanks, brother! You also, and God bless.I agree that you and I don't agree on how ABS works or it's value.
Have a nice day
Charlie
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