[K8SDAD]

2019 Chieftain LTD. Cold start, fine. Running down the road, fine. Warm start not so good. When I park for a short while, 30-40 minutes and restart the bike sometimes the throttle sticks. It is not a mechanical problem as the throttle grip returns to normal position. But the engine will continue to rev for a few seconds and then return to idle. If I rev it again it will do the same thing. This can go on for about a minute and then it returns to normal operation. I don't dare ride away until I make sure it's over its tizzy. One day I restarted and pulled out in traffic and approached a red light and as I let off the gas it just kept pulling. I had the presence of mind to grab a handful of clutch and brake and stopped safely only to sit there with the engine revving to 4000 rpm. As usual after a minute or so of this nonsense it begins acting normal again. Indian told the dealer to do a re-flash which they did to no avail. Anybody else had this issue?

 

[Kitulu]

The TS111 is a throttle-by-wire, using a rheostat in the throttle grip to send a signal to the ECU telling it how far you have twisted the throttle. So, one of the following things is happening:

1) The throttle tables in the flash were corrupted somehow, which should have been fixed with the reflash.
2) The ECU is reading the signals incorrectly, and thinks that your throttle is still open when it is not. It could be that the ECU is going bad.
3) The rheostat in the throttle grip is sticking and/or not sending the correct signal to the ECU, which means that the throttle assembly would need to be replaced.

Since they reflashed the ECU, and it did not fix the issue, if I were the tech I would look at testing and/or replacing the rheostat in the throttle grip mechanism.

 

[Baron58]

Also check the harness plug that connects to the throttle body, that could be loose or not connected properly.

 

[RoadmasterD]

Make them fix that quick, that could cause a crash! Should be warranty.

 

[K8SDAD]

The TS111 is a throttle-by-wire, using a rheostat in the throttle grip to send a signal to the ECU telling it how far you have twisted the throttle. So, one of the following things is happening:

1) The throttle tables in the flash were corrupted somehow, which should have been fixed with the reflash.
2) The ECU is reading the signals incorrectly, and thinks that your throttle is still open when it is not. It could be that the ECU is going bad.
3) The rheostat in the throttle grip is sticking and/or not sending the correct signal to the ECU, which means that the throttle assembly would need to be replaced.

Since they reflashed the ECU, and it did not fix the issue, if I were the tech I would look at testing and/or replacing the rheostat in the throttle grip mechanism.

Tech is gold certified. But he is doing what Indian is telling him. Their first response was to tell me not to "whack the throttle". Seriously? I suggested he tell Indian to review what happen to Toyota a few years ago over sticky throttles and that 30 billion they paid in fines for not investigating . It is still cold most of the time in Tennessee where I am so I have limited opportunity to take it to the dealer. I agree with your assessment. (number 2) Basically the ECU thinks something is happening that is not happening. On one occasion I let the bike run for 60 seconds before I touched the throttle grip and it ran fine. Seems to have some sort of a time component. Again this only happens at warm start and only lasts for about a minute. Then it's fine. I will visit my dealer again when the weather breaks here in East Tennessee. Thanks for your input. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Kitulu]

Tech is gold certified. But he is doing what Indian is telling him. Their first response was to tell me not to "whack the throttle". Seriously? I suggested he tell Indian to review what happen to Toyota a few years ago over sticky throttles and that 30 billion they paid in fines for not investigating . It is still cold most of the time in Tennessee where I am so I have limited opportunity to take it to the dealer. I agree with your assessment. (number 2) Basically the ECU thinks something is happening that is not happening. On one occasion I let the bike run for 60 seconds before I touched the throttle grip and it ran fine. Seems to have some sort of a time component. Again this only happens at warm start and only lasts for about a minute. Then it's fine. I will visit my dealer again when the weather breaks here in East Tennessee. Thanks for your input. I'll keep you posted.

That statement right there makes me lean towards the throttle assembly not working correctly.

 

[oldhippie]

If it goes on for about a minute, it's likely due to the engine being 'cold' (as a relative term), and going through the cold start process again. It says right in the manual (page 76, item 7) - "Idle speed is computer controlled and idle speed will adjust automatically depending on air temperature and air temperature. Allow the engine to warm up for one minute minimum at low RPM after starting.".

I'm not sure why people think there's an issue, this appears to be design intent. Maybe rtfm?

 

[Kitulu]

If it goes on for about a minute, it's likely due to the engine being 'cold' (as a relative term), and going through the cold start process again. It says right in the manual (page 76, item 7) - "Idle speed is computer controlled and idle speed will adjust automatically depending on air temperature and air temperature. Allow the engine to warm up for one minute minimum at low RPM after starting.".

I'm not sure why people think there's an issue, this appears to be design intent. Maybe rtfm?

Read the OP again. Revving to 4000rpm is not normal, even if the engine is cold.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Moto_Max]

Read the OP again. Revving to 4000rpm is not normal, even if the engine is cold.

Just trying to figure things out here.

What is your reply based on? What is normal? Where is the text that states what's normal?

 

[wassup77]

Just trying to figure things out here.

What is your reply based on? What is normal? Where is the text that states what's normal?

Seriously? Revving to 4000 rpm might be normal? No, no vehicle on the road idles that high even on a cold start. Also, according to the OP, it doesn’t do it in cold starts. It does it after he has road it for a while, then shuts it off, then cranks it back up to go again. I think it’s either the rheostat in the throttle control or the wiring to it is damaged, causing a bad signal to be sent to the computer.

 

[oldhippie]

Read the OP again. Revving to 4000rpm is not normal, even if the engine is cold.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I read it several times - it's not like he says it revs to 4000 while it's just sitting there, he was talking about riding immediately after starting it, during the 1 minute start-up.

I was just saying that interfering with the 'cold start' computer procedure before it's had a chance to gather data from the sensors might be the cause of the high revs. If the OP states that he doesn't have a problem if he waits one minute, and the procedure says to wait one minute, maybe that's the issue? Ever driven a manual-choke bike? Will idle at one speed when 1st started, but once you start riding, it will idle even higher, and there isn't any engine drag. Drop the choke, engine revs lower. same thing, but choke is run by computer in this case. Hell, I've had high revs happen in some of the old auto-choke cars before, not sure why this is s surprise?

To me, it just stands to reason that this might happen. Is it so difficult to start the bike 1st, then put your gear on? By the time you're ready to ride, it's gone through the one-minute routine & you're good to go.

I'm just sayin...

 

[Max Kool]

Sounds like a problem with the throttle butterfly/stepper motor/sensor to me....

 

[Moto_Max]

Seriously? Revving to 4000 rpm might be normal? No, no vehicle on the road idles that high even on a cold start.

How many vehicles have you owned? How can you say, "No, no vehicle on the road idles that high even on a cold start."?

My Guzzi has always revved that high on initial start up. Then It comes down to normal idle usually by the time I get my ear plugs in, balaclava on, helmet on, and then gloves.

What's the "danger" of the bike revving that high on start up? It's not like it's hitting the limiter (it's still got plenty room to climb) and staying there.

 

[Max Kool]

I hope we do agree a temporary 4000rpm idle on a 2019 Chieftain is not normal even on a cold/lukewarm engine, do we?

It's not like the OP is riding a carbed bike that can't choose between idling at 4krpm and dying on a half choke...

 

[Dr.Shifty]

Before everyone gets too hot under the collar about idle speed, here is the tuning info regarding engine temperature and idle speed. These temps are in celcius, but that's not important here. Note that the highest idle speed the computer will set is 1200 rpm, and as the engine warms up it reduces from there. At no point will the computer set a 4,000 rpm idle speed.

What the OP is describing is not normal behavior for these motors and needs to be checked out.

 

[wassup77]

How many vehicles have you owned? How can you say, "No, no vehicle on the road idles that high even on a cold start."?

My Guzzi has always revved that high on initial start up. Then It comes down to normal idle usually by the time I get my ear plugs in, balaclava on, helmet on, and then gloves.

What's the "danger" of the bike revving that high on start up? It's not like it's hitting the limiter (it's still got plenty room to climb) and staying there.

The danger in a cold start is that the motor is “dry”. On cold start when it hasn’t been ran in a while all the oil is in the bottom of the motor. They pressurize and loob up pretty quick, but to be hitting 4000 rpm as soon as it starts, when cold, is gonna be super hard on the bearings and top end. Also I need to clarify, I shouldn’t have said no vehicle on the road. I should have said no vehicle that redlines at 5400 rpm, is going to be set up to high idle at 4000 rpm at idle. And not that it has any bearing on the discussion, but since you’ve asked I’ve owned 21 trucks, 4 cars, and 8 motorcycles. I built the motors for 8 of those trucks and 1 of the cars and am in the middle of a full restoration on a 96 Shadow VLX. M not a professional mechanic and don’t claim to be. And admittedly the electronics of these modern bikes, I am just starting to learn on, but I know this. A Chevy 350 V8 that redlines at 5500 to 6000 rpm, if you set it up to cold idle at 4000rpm, it’s probably not gonna last more than a few months. Now I won’t speak for higher revving motors that I have little to no experience with. Also, one simple way we know his bike shouldn’t idle at 4000 rpms, is no one else’s is doing it.

 

[rpsibew110]

Also, one simple way we know his bike shouldn’t idle at 4000 rpms, is no one else’s is doing it.

Well not no one, mine has a hand full of times has revved at startup to 3000-4000. Also when restarting the bike without turning it off and back on I get a power surge to the radio on startup and the volume goes way up for a short second. I understand why it does it but the radio should be powered off on startup.

 

[wassup77]

Well not no one, mine has a hand full of times has revved at startup to 3000-4000. Also when restarting the bike without turning it off and back on I get a power surge to the radio on startup and the volume goes way up for a short second. I understand why it does it but the radio should be powered off on startup.

Agreed on the radio, mine takes several seconds to come in after I crank the bike.

 

[K8SDAD]

If it goes on for about a minute, it's likely due to the engine being 'cold' (as a relative term), and going through the cold start process again. It says right in the manual (page 76, item 7) - "Idle speed is computer controlled and idle speed will adjust automatically depending on air temperature and air temperature. Allow the engine to warm up for one minute minimum at low RPM after starting.".

I'm not sure why people think there's an issue, this appears to be design intent. Maybe rtfm?

this is my 6th Indian 111. none of the others had this issue.

 

[sinn]

Have you had the throttle grip off or replaced the stock grip by any chance?