[Stone612]

Good day everyone. I have recently replaced my handlebars and upon completion, I now have no front brakes. During the bleeding procedure, I was able to get one of the two pistons to respond, this confirmed I had internal pressure in the lines and system. I took the front brake caliper off the bike and began troubleshooting. However, I now have no response from the caliper and neither piston moves. I continue to troubleshoot and bleed the brake system getting out all air bubbles but the front brake continues to not work (no movement of pistons in the caliper). I'm fairly knowledgeable about the brake system but am stuck on this issue. I did have to replace a brake line that runs from the master cylinder to the ABS module. However, the line and installation went perfectly and have not found any indication that it may have something to do with the new line. One idea is I might have damaged the front master cylinder during install by accidentally dropping it. No visible damage from fall but I am concerned that it may have something to do with this issue. The bike only has 6K miles and the front brake system has had little wear and tear. PLEASE ADVISE & THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!!

 

[Dr.Shifty]

The ABS system on the Scout needs a special tool to bleed it if you've undone any banjo connector. The tool holds the valves in the ABS unit open, otherwise it won't bleed. It's a dealer job unfortunately.

 

[Stone612]

The ABS system on the Scout needs a special tool to bleed it if you've undone any banjo connector. The tool holds the valves in the ABS unit open, otherwise it won't bleed. It's a dealer job unfortunately.

Thank you for the feedback. However, Prior to this issue, I had replaced the original handlebars with the Indian Mini Apes 10" which involved replacing the entire brake line from the master cylinder to the ABS module. Big pain in the butt to do. That mod was successful in that once install was completed all I had to do was bleed brake system as normal and I was off riding with everything working perfectly. So at first thoughts, I would have agreed with the "special tool" idea, but I have replaced brake line 2 times prior with no issues.
I have confirmed that from the banjo fitting on ABS all the way to the banjo fitting on the master cylinder is undamaged and no kinks or indentation in the brake line, nothing pinching it.
Also, even more confusing is that upon starting the bike and putting it into 1st gear once the speed gets going the ABS indicator light goes off (this is normal operating procedure) as if nothing is wrong, but I still have no front brake response. The pistons do not move in the caliper. I tried the air compressor test with success having both pistons respond, 1 easier than the other but both eventually coming out as designed.
Question? I have heard that the master cylinder if damaged or faulty will cause a brake issue. And stupidly I accidentally dropped the master cylinder on the garage floor. After inspection, it appears that it was only cosmetic damage and nothing mechanical. The question is could that 4-5 ft impact be enough to cause all this trouble? I did take off the master cylinder to inspect it and perform some checks and it does seem to have propper suction/pressure.
I'm at a loss as a simpleton garage mechanic. I'm not sure what more I can do as far as troubleshooting and testing.
I spoke to local Indian service shop (Daytona Beach, FL) and the only option they gave me was to bring it in and have a technician perform brake bleed in the shop and go from there. I was told the technician would have to plug into the ABS module in order to communicate with the bike's braking system in order to diagnose any possible issues. Not looking forward to having someone work on my bike or paying the hefty shop charges. Any ideas or advice is greatly appreciated. And thank you again for your input.

 

[TigerGA]

If you’ve bled the brakes, are not getting any air bubbles, and the pistons will not move after 50+ pumps of the brake lever, I‘m afraid you’re headed to the dealer. As a reference...I just bled the brakes on my RM and cleaned the calipers (pushing the pistons back in). I was surprised how many brake lever pumps it took to get the brakes back, but eventually they came back to normal.

 

[Dieseldoc]

Try vacuum bleeding from the caliper.Had a 95 GMC pickup that I replaced the master cylinder on,bench bled the new one and never got a solid pedal until I vacuum bled from each wheel and a bleeder on the ABS module.Went thru almost 2 qts of fluid before the system started working.

 

[Dr.Shifty]

Thank you for the feedback. However, Prior to this issue, I had replaced the original handlebars with the Indian Mini Apes 10" which involved replacing the entire brake line from the master cylinder to the ABS module. Big pain in the butt to do. That mod was successful in that once install was completed all I had to do was bleed brake system as normal and I was off riding with everything working perfectly. So at first thoughts, I would have agreed with the "special tool" idea, but I have replaced brake line 2 times prior with no issues.

What happens when you pull in the brake lever? Does is go the full distance without building up pressure, or does it appear to operate normally?

If there's pressure there I'd next check it over time. Pull in the lever and strap it in place, then leave it overnight. If it softens up over time, pump it until pressure builds up and repeat. This can sometimes bring a trapped airlock up the piping.

If there is no pressure, what is happening to the fluid in the reservoir? It can't be leaking onto the ground or you'd see it.

Dropping the master cylinder from that height should not do internal damage. The system is very simple and robust.

 

[MagnumHelms]

I just had the exact same issue on my 2018 abs scout bobber. I couldn't bleed them, and my mechanic couldn't either. I finally found the solution. I hooked up a electric 3cfm vacuum pump to the reservoir and it worked instantly. I took a piece of plexi glass and cut it to the same size of the reservoir, then drilled a hole and hooked up a small piece of tubing, Hot glued it to the reservoir and then went through the bleeding process just rather than doing it through the bleeder valve it was pulling out the top of the reservoir. THERE WAS SO MUCH AIR. Bleed then that way for about 15 min. When I tried bleeding from the bleeder valve there was no air but i still had no brake pressure, this was the only thing that worked for me. What my mechanic and I hypothesize is that there was air in the ABS system itself and air was just trapped.
-EH

I also replaced the crush washers on the banjo nut, because that was the reason I got air in my system to begin with.

 

[Stone612]

UPDATE!!!
Finally decided to bring the bike to the Indian dealership, and it was fixed within minutes.
The issue causing no front brake was identified and simply fixed for only a charge of 30mins of labor.
As mentioned in MagnumHelms post as well as others the issue was trapped air within the ABS module. A disclaimer, I didn't use a vacuum bleeder when bleeding brakes, I've only used the water bottle technique. The service shop said the only way the air could have been released was by emergency braking situations or by using the Indian computers to cycle the system. Problem solved and finally riding again. Thank you, everyone, for your input and advice.
Ride Safe,
Aaron

 

[Dr.Shifty]

UPDATE!!!
...

The service shop said the only way the air could have been released was by emergency braking situations or by using the Indian computers to cycle the system. Problem solved and finally riding again. Thank you, everyone, for your input and advice.
Ride Safe,
Aaron

This is an interesting insight into the ABS system. It's relatively easy to force an emergency braking situation. All you need is a sloping hill with wet grass, or any slippery surface. Ride down the hill at slow speed and hit the front brake but not the rear. This will lock up the front wheel and if the rear wheel is turning the ABS system will kick in.

I have a steepish driveway down to the road. It's concrete with exposed smooth stones about pea size and in damp weather they get slippery. My ABS is often locking up if I brake before getting to the road.

I'm glad you are back on the road safely.

 

[EZ Rider 55]

Excellent, Stone612! Happy endings are always good to hear. Nice lookin’ bike, too! Ride safe.