[apd4209]

i was at my local Victory dealer today, Mies Outland in Watkins MN, getting new rubber put on my XC when I got involved in a pretty in-depth conversation with my sales guy I have been dealing with for several years now.

I had inquired a couple other times about whether they were also going to try and be an Indian dealer besides Vics. Well today he confirmed it. Indian is coming to Mies Outland. In fact, they are going to put an addition on their building to add to their showroom just for Indian. They will have a partial wall between the two showrooms to 'separate' Vic from Indian. He also reitterated Polaris's belief that Indian will outsell Vic in 2-3 years. The Polaris rep hinted to the dealer there are many cool things to come from Indian.

I asked my sales guy if he has seen any photos or anything of the new Indian. He claims he hasnt and that the sales staff have been pestering their owner for the same thing and even the owner of the dealership claims to have not seen the new Indian. Polaris really has kept it a closely guarded secret.

I asked about the price-point of $18,999 and what would come with the bike, if anything. Sales guy thinks that will be a bare-bones bike, no saddlebags or windscreen or much of anything. Still a much cheaper price-point than Indian used to be.

Off topice about Vics: Asked him why the Boardwalk isnt selling. Says price-point is too high when for 2grand more you can get a cross country. He thinks that is the #1 reason why they arent selling. He is also concerned about base-model Vics like the Vegas fading away. No entry level bikes or smaller framed bikes for females or your bar-hopper bike. Models are getting limited.

 

[Andy]

He also reitterated Polaris's belief that Indian will outsell Vic in 2-3 years.

Honestly, I think that's an accurate prediction as IMHO, I think Indian already has a better name brand recognition than Victory.

My question is: If the new Indian lives up to the hype and pre-orders exceed expections, where does the production capacity come from? Will Polaris hold off on production until new facilities can be built, or will they take over some of Victory's production capacity?

Remember, Polaris is a public company and it's all about generating cash and making a profit.

Please don't shoot the messenger. It's my job to ask the questions.

 

[iabob]

Honestly, I think that's an accurate prediction as IMHO, I think Indian already has a better name brand recognition than Victory.

My question is: If the new Indian lives up to the hype and pre-orders exceed expections, where does the production capacity come from? Will Polaris hold off on production until new facilities can be built, or will they take over some of Victory's production capacity?

Remember, Polaris is a public company and it's all about generating cash and making a profit.  

Please don't shoot the messenger. It's my job to ask the questions.  

Probably not a realistic scenario. They have built a second assembly line for Indian pretty much right next to the Vic line. It has it's own tooling and Vic has it's own. I don't think making fewer Vics on the Vic line so they can run more Indians on it is an option. Just by doing a little mental addition from talking to the factory workers I think a 'line' at Spirit Lake has a capacity of close to 60,000 bikes a year. Asumming that demand got that high and they added a second or third shift. I think where your question comes in is lets just say in a few years Indian is running three shifts and maxed out capacity while Victory is still just running one shift and even it is under capacity. Polaris has ample space at a new building they just bought about ten miles south. Will they invest in a third line or would they kill Victory alltogether and retool that line for Indian...
As an investor I'm hoping to see some new stuff from Indian AND Victory and would love to see a third and fourth line added in Milford (the new space). I really think Victory is on the cusp of breaking out of the 'niche' catagory, the Cross has been phenomenal and I think if they just released a streetable CORE those two models alone would take them to the next level. From the business end I get that killing Victory for Indian's second line might make for a better return on investment than if they add a third line. OR...maybe a new Victory model does take off and a recall problem sees Indian falter. Maybe they kill Indian to add more Victory...either scenario I get why it might make sense. But I don't think either will happen.

 

[apd4209]

I see Victory sticking to progressive new styles like the cross bikes and vision. Indian will stick to the more traditional old-school styling that traditionalists will like and hope to convert some HD owners over.

But...thats just my prediction. For all we know the new 2014 Chief will look worse than the george jetson looking vision.

 

[Andy]

As an investor I'm hoping to see some new stuff from Indian AND Victory and would love to see a third and fourth line added in Milford (the new space). I really think Victory is on the cusp of breaking out of the 'niche' catagory, the Cross has been phenomenal and I think if they just released a streetable CORE those two models alone would take them to the next level. From the business end I get that killing Victory for Indian's second line might make for a better return on investment than if they add a third line. OR...maybe a new Victory model does take off and a recall problem sees Indian falter. Maybe they kill Indian to add more Victory...either scenario I get why it might make sense. But I don't think either will happen.

There's a lot of merit to your post. Personally, I think it would be fantastic to see Polaris update the Victory's stronger sellers and launch some new bikes under the Victory name and combined with Indian, truly become a force in the motorcycle market.

We'll see the direction they are taking soon enough!

 

[Redmule]

I think for Polaris to be successful they should provide with the dealer in house training for mechanics. I'm talking a couple months or whatever it takes. Harley has the Harley Mechanics courses at a few colleges sponsered by them which I assume is a huge help for dealers. Victory and Indian need to provide in house training for mechanics to become knowledgeable with the bikes. I think that is the biggest improvement that they need. Nothing worse than not trusting a mechanic with your bike or having it not fixed properly. Even basic things like tire changes and after aligning the belt seems a problem for many. You are going down the road at 70 mph on a couple small patches of rubber last thing you need is to doubt the reliability of the shop who put your bike together. So basically they are going to start selling Indian soon and how many of the new dealers will have any training? If they don't improve this they will not be as successful as they could be.

 

[Chicago_Mark]

Production capacity is not their issue. They recently stated they work one 8 hour shift and can nearly triple that in the same facility by adding personnel. Perhaps Indian is one of the better things to happen to Victory in a while.

 

[Pointman]

I hope Indian does very well and could see a future model, like a scout, parked next to my XCT.

But I don't see Victory going anywhere but up unless they so something really stupid or make no efforts to clean up their few problem areas. Reason is I get more comments and questions about this XCT than any bike I've owned in 35 years. I mean old guys roll down their windows at stop lights and yell 'where did you get that bike!?' with the enthusiasm i would expect were i riding a winged unicorn.

 

[lykoi626]

K I know I haven't seen the whole bike...but from what people are saying and the rumors that are flying it will be an old school bike full of tradition and heritage. Sounds all too familiar. Now I'm all for a company trying to appeal to as many groups as they can but honestly that whole heritage and old school thing does nothing for me. My grandfather had an indian and it was great. I would never own one. I don't like the look it just isn't for me. Now if Polaris wants to keep both lines and appeal to everyone that is great. I bought my bike because it was 'me'. I have plans of staying with Victory for my next bike but if they start demolishing everything that made them appeal to me then I will have to walk away. I admire everthing about Indian as a brand and what Polaris is doing with them so far. I just hope Polaris realizes that not everyone is going to want to be a part of the heritage and tradition.

 

[stiles72]

I've spoken to a few Victory/Polaris dealers here in the Midwest the last couple of days, inquiring if they will become Indian dealers. Most have said flat out 'No'. One said they didn't know - but they supposedly 'know' one was coming to their city- but that it was up in the air just who would be awarded the dealership. Another dealership in Illinois said he was considering it - because Indian had dropped their buy in from $250k to $175K - but he still wasn't quite yet sold on the idea.

The last dealer I talked to in Wisconcin confirmed he was going to be an Indian dealer, and that they have built a new separate facility from their Victory building. He said technically its not offical because the building is pending inspection by Polaris/Indian - but they are confident they will pass with flying colors. This dealer stressed to me that Polaris is being very cautious and very protective of not only the new bike, but of the dealership experience. He said they want this to be a premium product with dedicated Indian sales and service, and that most of the 'mom and pop' Polaris/Victory dealers just wont cut it. He did say there is a big dealer meeting coming up in the next week or two, and only those dealers who have their Indian buildings and plans approved will be shown the new bike. All others will have to wait like the rest of us.

 

[JayFL726]

Not commited to buying an Indian but definitely curious to see it come out .. From what my Polaris Dealer says it looks like they will be an Indian Dealer and I sure hope so .. Even if decide to stay with the Victory Line definitely be nice to see Indian close by and Hope it kicks ass on the Market ..

 

[bubba]

They sre a public company and have to increase sales as a whole. I do no see them dropping the Vic line. I do see them investing in both lines and getting the whole BIGGER. They have to much invested in getting Vic where it is today.

 

[Ironman]

Victory has hit a homerun with the 'Cross' bikes and baggers/tourers are the fastest growing segment of the industy. Victory is also the entry way for young riders to the brand, not too many 20 somethings will be looking at Indian.
Polaris is well poised to cover all aspects of the market. The only thing missing from the lineup would be a lighter weight sport/touring model for newer riders and a Naked 'Core' bike.

 

[XCTMIKE]

Happy to hear that my dealer Mies/Outland will be an Indian dealer, not sure where they have space to add a showroom but am looking forward to seeing the 'new' Indians.

 

[redpin04]

It will be interesting to see how much momentum Indian can garner in it's first few years.
I'm excited about the rebirth from a real company that has shown some success in bike building.
It's a big gamble for them though, they've clearly invested some serious cash into it's reboot.
What that means for Victory? Hard to say, Victory has shown steady growth over the years and the Cross bikes have been a seemingly successful home run for the brand.

If the Vision get's it's reboot like some are thinking that would be a double punch for the brand.

While I'm assuming they're in the black on Victory has the 10k a year sales made a real dent to HD or other brand? Problably not, I'm sure it garners attention but I don't anyone is worried about Victory/Indian(yet).

 

[apd4209]

Happy to hear that my dealer Mies/Outland will be an Indian dealer, not sure where they have space to add a showroom but am looking forward to seeing the 'new' Indians.

Since they are your dealer, you will understand this as you have obviously been there. They are knokcing out the glass wall on the north end of the victory showroom and pushing it out into their main parking lot so the building is squared off in the front and even with the front entrance. They will lose some of their parking lot. They are going to build a partial wall between the two showrooms to keep them separate.

 

[TwinJugs]

I am lurking until the Indian is released, I won't buy a Victory until the Indian is released and I want to see if it get's legs unlike the past reincarnations and what will happen to the Victory line as a consequence,

 

[TheTazman]

Apd4209 sez:
'...Off topice about Vics:  Asked him why the Boardwalk isnt selling.  Says price-point is too high when for 2grand more you can get a cross country.  He thinks that is the #1 reason why they arent selling.  He is also concerned about base-model Vics like the Vegas fading away.  No entry level bikes or smaller framed bikes for females or your bar-hopper bike.  Models are getting limited...'

My dealer and I asked the same question...it may be price point...the success of the XCT, XCT, and Vision (all 3 best in class in my mind) may have created a market focus that limits the success of the entry level models...maybe a refocus on the current non-tour/non-bagger bikes, or an engine in the 50 in3 to appeal to riders looking for less investment, or who are entry level riders...I read somewhere that the 750 cc--900 cc is the largest segment of motorcyle owners. While not in that engine size, the Vegas, Judge and Boardwalk should compete there in terms of functionality styling, and use. unless already 'on the board,' a smaller engine would be several (2-4) years out.

Indian will certainly have a market share; Victory will have a market share, I don't look at Indian as encroaching on Victory...they will appeal to people looking for different things. I would bet that what is more important to all of us is that both brands perform at or above projection, and that Polaris is happy with their return on investment and the bottom line. Success in both brands will benefit all Polaris brand riders...

 

[TX2wheel]

I would bet that what is more important to all of us is that both brands perform at or above projection, and that Polaris is happy with their return on investment and the bottom line. Success in both brands will benefit all Polaris brand riders...

And negative ROI encountered by any brand will drag down Polaris. May all the 'Heritage at a Premium' prophecies being pushed out to Vic dealers by Polaris be accurate, or, eh, uh,,,

 

[TwinJugs]

Apd4209 sez: '...Off topice about Vics: Asked him why the Boardwalk isnt selling. Says price-point is too high when for 2grand more you can get a cross country. He thinks that is the #1 reason why they arent selling. He is also concerned about base-model Vics like the Vegas fading away. No entry level bikes or smaller framed bikes for females or your bar-hopper bike. Models are getting limited...' My dealer and I asked the same question...it may be price point...the success of the XCT, XCT, and Vision (all 3 best in class in my mind) may have created a market focus that limits the success of the entry level models...maybe a refocus on the current non-tour/non-bagger bikes, or an engine in the 50 in3 to appeal to riders looking for less investment, or who are entry level riders...I read somewhere that the 750 cc--900 cc is the largest segment of motorcyle owners. While not in that engine size, the Vegas, Judge and Boardwalk should compete there in terms of functionality styling, and use. unless already 'on the board,' a smaller engine would be several (2-4) years out. Indian will certainly have a market share; Victory will have a market share, I don't look at Indian as encroaching on Victory...they will appeal to people looking for different things. I would bet that what is more important to all of us is that both brands perform at or above projection, and that Polaris is happy with their return on investment and the bottom line. Success in both brands will benefit all Polaris brand riders...

Harley is the same. Baggers outsell everything except I think Sportsters. Polaris needs an entry level bike to ladder up to the bigger stuff.