… And they are doing this … an entry level Harley…

https://www.motorcycle.com/bikes/new-model-preview/entry-level-harley-davidson-sprint-confirmed-for-2026-44645536

 

That looks like a harbor freight motorcycle 😂

 

If Indian made an early 1920’s Scout with some modern features…. I’d buy one……. or two

 

I can here the conversation in the boardroom. "Well, Al Bundy didn't work out, so let's try a different route." "We'll go with Happy Gilmore this time."

 

Well, he better think of something that works. Bigger-Flashier and More Expensive isn't working anymore. That market is getting smaller every year.
I was thinking they might be able to salvage the LiveWire investment by using the chassis as a base for an electric 3 wheel "Servicar" type unit for city/metro use, campuses, anywhere you might use a Gator. Maybe with a flatbed.
They could probably make a pretty fast police bike with it, but it wouldn't have the range for highway patrol, might actually work great in the city though. Plenty of electric power for any kind of cop gear you could imagine
They might try a smaller/lighter/cheaper Pan-America, 750cc or so?

Good luck Dude

 

Curious where did Polaris ceo come from. CEO of snowmobile company. Not saying this is right guy. But where do you find a motorcycle CEO?

To some this a concern buying bike next to snowmobile. Though I worry more about the mechanics

 

Well, Polaris has made snowmobiles since the 1960s and still do.

 

From the Harley Forums, some funny pictures LOL

 

I read the bio of the new HD CEO. Princeton grad, likes outdoor sports, former exec at Pizza Hut, a cinema company, an investment banker, & CEO of Top Golf. I‘m more interested in what the bio didn’t say - no mention of owning a motorcycle, having a love for motorcycles, etc. No background in the powersports industry or any type of manufacturing. Perhaps HD can enroll him in a New Riders Course…

 

You just said the most important part. "No background in manufacturing". A good CEO doesn't have to know how to use the product, but they do have to know how to make and sell it.

 

I purchased my first Harley in 1984,

This was no small thing in England back then as Harleys were scarce. I recall only 'four' used Harleys for sale in England when I bought my used 1976 Sportster.

This latest development is very sad indeed. HD seems to be little more than a corporate machine these days.

Perhaps the day will come when Indian/Polaris buys HD....

Ride safe,
Roy

 

The whole world is scratching for more money or power why should a motorcycle company be any different. It’s all about more, more,more but it’s never enough.

 

True, but I think in HDs case they're begging for ANY, lol. They're so far over their ears in debt I don't think it's a salvageable business without making drastic changes.

 

HD did sell a 5% stake in their financial business to Private Equity firm KKR and Wall Street firm PIMCO. That was a 5 billion dollar infusion of cash to work with. I hope they use it wisely.

 

They'll probably use the money to develop a solar powered touring trike that is lubricated with unicorn tears. They have developed a steady line of unprofitable crap, save their mainstay bikes, for a while now, Street 500-750, Livewire, Pan-Tranny whatever that overweight, overpriced "Adventure"POS is called. I wish them well, but like England, I don't see how they survive.

 

Man i swear i havent face palmed any harder in my life......

 

Before TopGolf he was at Pizza Hut

 

 

I got no sympathy for HD. They're kinda in trouble as it is, but after reading about this new guy, [a golf pro, lol] HD may NOT be around too much longer, period, and I got no sympathy for em. I did not care for the Harleys before, and there is nothing that is gonna change my mind in the future. I'm now Indian all the way and am dam glad I made that decision. Dave!!!

 

Without HDMC there’d probably be no IMC. So your favorite past time would be Pickleball lol.

 

All of the above can be said of Indian as well.

 

I was going to say the exact same thing, haha

 

One possibility would be for the new CEO to cut their biggest money loser completely out of the company. Studebaker did this back in the mid-1960s when they shut down their automobile production. The company itself continued on, profitably for several decades. Harley-Davidson could continue on, as a much smaller entity, but possibly more profitable company for years into the future as some sort of a branding unit?

 

The Harley brand is part of the issue. It is very polarizing. You have the die-hard Harley Loyalist and the people who hate them. It's a huge issue for them.

Harley built up for years of the outlaw biker image, it was ingrained in the collective consciousness through movies and television. It worked for them for a while especially for the traditionalist and Baby boomer generations. So much the Harley was paralyzed to move forward in design and offerings because of their core customer base rejecting anything but the old inferior design and culture.

This put Harley behind the 8-ball and they are paying for it. Harley tried to appeal to the younger generation with electric and woke policies. But the younger generations view of the Harley brand is tainted as an old man knuckle dragging biker gang riding inferior bikes.

Indian being fairly new and gone for such a long time, doesn't have the baggage and negative polarizing brand recognition that Harley does.

The only way Harley will regain success is a much smaller company.

Indian is a very small and tiny company (Polaris division) thus the small dealership footprint. Most people think Indian is a big company like Harley, Polaris is and is bigger. But Indian Motorcycle is a tiny company, and they are successful because they don't overexpose themselves.

 

20 years ago they said the average CEO stays 18 months. I don't know if that is still true.

Harley is a large company with a long legacy, I am not a doom and gloom guy. I do think they will have pains and changes. But again keep in mind how big they are.

The need newer riders, but also alienating some old riders with all the big screens. Indian is selling to the same market as Harley. Big touring bike are the bulk of harley sales, and I suspect indian too.

So if Harley suffers loss of interest Indian will too. What the answer is, to get the newer rider is I do not know. They are not into. Better family men, selling bike to get 4 seater sxs. Maybe raised to be scared of bikes.

 

When I started at my company, lots of people had bikes 25 years ago. Now most do not. Maybe the old guys that retired still do. But I work with guys making lots of money, and they are not buying bikes.

 

This should be interesting, if nothing else…

 

Understand that a public company is driven by its stockholders and governed by its board. Boards are supposed to represent the stockholders. Boards are also the collective conscience of the organization, they can tap the brakes when needed. However, the board cannot really execute anything or operate the machine on a daily basis. The CEO is supposed to deliver a plan to the board for achieving whatever goal they set in place and execute that plan. Plan fails --> CEO gets fired. Plan works --> CEO gets rewards.

Getting a long-term CEO is nice, but short-term CEOs are often necessary. They make the cuts, make hard decisions, and move on or get moved along. Once the company is achieving what the board wants, they usually quietly shift to a long-term CEO with a steady hand.

It is the CEO that decides where the markets are and how to convince people to give up their money.

The Harley brand is part of the issue. It is very polarizing. You have the die-hard Harley Loyalist and the people who hate them. It's a huge issue for them.

Harley built up for years of the outlaw biker image, it was ingrained in the collective consciousness through movies and television. It worked for them for a while especially for the traditionalist and Baby boomer generations. So much the Harley was paralyzed to move forward in design and offerings because of their core customer base rejecting anything but the old inferior design and culture.

This put Harley behind the 8-ball and they are paying for it. Harley tried to appeal to the younger generation with electric and woke policies. But the younger generations view of the Harley brand is tainted as an old man knuckle dragging biker gang riding inferior bikes.

Indian being fairly new and gone for such a long time, doesn't have the baggage and negative polarizing brand recognition that Harley does.

The only way Harley will regain success is a much smaller company.

Indian is a very small and tiny company (Polaris division) thus the small dealership footprint. Most people think Indian is a big company like Harley, Polaris is and is bigger. But Indian Motorcycle is a tiny company, and they are successful because they don't overexpose themselves.

These are correct statements.
Harley worked in the shadows of Indian for many of their early years (including losing lawsuits / money to Indian for patent violations). Where HD stood apart was in creating and selling a lifestyle / image that went hand in hand with their bikes. Their branded merchandise supported what expenses the motorcycles sales couldn't cover. Then they benefitted from Hendee and Hedstrom leaving Indian and the sale of the company to DuPont Motors, who stabilized the finances. Despite Indian introducing the Chief in 1940, Harley had a HUGE upswing in sales to the government during WWII, where Indian wasn't nearly aggressive enough to match HD. All of this lead to the sale and eventual financial downfall of Indian. As stated above, Polaris raised Indian from the ashes in 2011. The history of both companies spans many wars, economic depression / recessions, changes in ownership, and shifting demographics.

We're just now recovering form a global pandemic (you can debate the origins and effects of that for yourselves) and are seeing all-time lows in the birthrate in developed Countries (that in and of itself limits the number of potential / future riders that ANY company can bet their future on).
As stated above, the same "loyalists" who've committed to / identified with the HD lifestyle are creating a rift in the customer base that HD seems unable to adjust to. Add that to a smaller pool of potential customers and HD has to change their product line (and pricing) as well as ridding themselves of unprofitable practices and products. The very strength of HD (their enormous dealership network) is at risk, as we've already seen. I personally believe BOTH companies missed a huge opportunity to grow through the pandemic - it was the PERFECT time to market riding to a society encouraged to isolate and maintain distance between people, but that's no longer here nor there.

HD needs to shut down or sell off the LiveWire Division, develop an affordable entry level series for young riders that the Nightster has failed to attract, and offer at least a few liquid-cooled models (as Indian has done) to keep loyalists looking for something better / less antiquated and limited, or risk losing everything to their competitors who are in a better place.

Maybe the new CEO will be just what the company needs. IF he can bring some financial stability to the company / stop the bleeding (of cash), that would open up more opportunities for HD long term - whether it be under current ownership or not. There are a LOT of employees (direct, and in the dealership chain) that have a LOT at risk.
Desperate times require desperate measures. Sometimes a radical change is needed.
If you're having trouble seeing the future, you just might need new glasses.

 

I still believe bringing in someone as CEO who has a background in running a pizza business and apparently has no connection to motorcyles, riding, PowerSports, etc., is just repeating the same mistakes already made, but expecting a different result. I realize in many instances a CEO doesn’t have to be ingrained with the product or service the company is selling - you don’t have to be a pilot to successfully manage an airline.

However, HD is a different animal. An airline doesn’t have a cultural following, no one gets “Delta“ tattooed on their arm because it’s their favorite airline. I really believe HQ senior mgmt and their Board of Directors are out of touch with their customers and the motorcycling community. So HD will do what it did last time - they’ll roll a Street Glide in front of their HQs, have someone from the motor clothes show up & dress the new CEO in HD gear, and he‘ll sit on the bike for a photoshoot. That’s as close as he’ll come to riding a motorcycle.

 

Does anyone remember Vaughn Beals?

 

I still disagree. This purely a business and nothing more. Knowing how to, or having experience riding a motorcycle has nothing to do with the overall operations of a business. HD didn't fall into this mess overnight, it took years and years of mismanagement meaning it goes back to Willie G. and further. These were guys that were ingrained in the culture but mostly invested in selling the BRAND rather than the PRODUCT. So they grew and grew to global recognition only to realize they still aren't profitable then cried for help. They reached out and specifically looked for business management with experience turning failing companies around and to some point were successful....for a moment.

I think the long running problem lies with the Board of Directors. The CEO of a company is mainly a face with money and connections and they can't act without approval from the Board. The fact that they keep going thru CEOs is a sign that the Board itself has bigger problems.

 

It is a global billion dollar industry, Need to navigate tariffs, ect. I would be curious how much is done by an CEO. Are they really contributing to the new line up or letting people involved do it?

 

I ride with mostly Indian and Harley guys. The Harley guys keep asking for full liquid cooled like the Indians have. Some of the die-hard Harley guys flipped to Indian because of the Powerplus engine. The rest will always ride HD but are hoping for a liquid cooled engine, not just partially cooled. But anything not HD is still not considered.

HD has the engine already in the Pan American. Why are they so stubborn to not put it in a Touring bike?