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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a pretty hands on background with programming maps on a Power Commander III & V, decided after reading on this forum from them that they had ran several scouts on dyno with many performance changes and was flashing the ECU with the powervision 3, thought I would save myself some time and go with professionals. I called and was told to just pay full price for Power vision 3 and follow instructions and I would get a map sent to me that was for my bike and my mods that would run perfect based off all this dyno data. I put my mods on V&H slip ons / Arlen Ness Torquebox, they show 103HP Dyno charts with this similar set up. First test run after flashing and confirming new map, bike runs kinda sluggish, loss of power, bogs down and decel pops a little, I called for help and was told I would have to E-mail Tuning Tech support and here was my reply back ................

"Hello, the maps were developed on the dyno however every bike can be a little different any may require additional tuning. If you are having an issue we will need to see some datalogs. They can be submitted thru the Fuel Map link on our website. You can also try any of the maps from the dynojetpowervision.com website"


Here is the post from Fuelmoto about the scout maps are ready
https://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/fuel-moto-scout-dyno-testing-dynojet-pv-cx-mapping.210848/
 

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One thing I noticed with the FuelMoto maps is that all the tunes are the same for any slip on exhaust and any high flow intake. Doesn't matter the combination, the tune is the same. Compared them for 4 different setups...

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Discussion Starter #3
I would be OK with that if they were professional tunes, I noticed that the throttle torque/sensitivity specs were untouched which is always adjusted in performance tunes, I did see some timing changes, not sure how generic they are.
 

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man, coming after FuelMoto today...

this is gonna be a wild ride from beginning to end...

i'm here for it, but i'm not 100% sure why...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If your asked to pay the premium and promised the service, you follow through to the end, it's that simple, I'm sure the talent and tools are there, just would like to see the product, was kinda looking forward to a plug & play performance map and not having to make adjustments and hours of riding my bike fine tuning it, I have done it many times before and if I have to start with a base dynojet map and mod from there I will, then from there I feel like I should be able to share this map with all.
 

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Well $h!t, I was just about to pull the trigger on the pvc 3 for both my bike through Fuel Moto. I just might wait and see what else comes out of this thread. I’ve read very positive reviews about them so I’m surprised to read some negative ones.


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I have a pretty hands on background with programming maps on a Power Commander III & V, decided after reading on this forum from them that they had ran several scouts on dyno with many performance changes and was flashing the ECU with the powervision 3, thought I would save myself some time and go with professionals. I called and was told to just pay full price for Power vision 3 and follow instructions and I would get a map sent to me that was for my bike and my mods that would run perfect based off all this dyno data. I put my mods on V&H slip ons / Arlen Ness Torquebox, they show 103HP Dyno charts with this similar set up. First test run after flashing and confirming new map, bike runs friggin terrible, loss of power, bogs down and decel pops, I called for help and was told I would have to E-mail Tuning Tech support and here was my reply back ................

"Hello, the maps were developed on the dyno however every bike can be a little different any may require additional tuning. If you are having an issue we will need to see some datalogs. They can be submitted thru the Fuel Map link on our website. You can also try any of the maps from the dynojetpowervision.com website"

I guess for now I'm Back to downloading maps from Dynojet and tuning myself again, I could have saved myself $200.00 and just installed a PCV. After open up both maps and comparing them in the new Powercore software it just looks like somebody went in and changed rows of AFR data to to a ball park generic map, definitely not a map made from a dyno.

Here is the post from Fuelmoto about the scout maps are ready
https://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/fuel-moto-scout-dyno-testing-dynojet-pv-cx-mapping.210848/

Green and red are percentage changes from stock map
View attachment 484056
I’m a complete noob to all this so I’m interested in this info you provided. Thanks for sharing the info and your experience with them.


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This is one of the first times I've read bad reports on FuelMoto... I was very happy with them when working on my Chieftain tune... Also, something I'm sure you know but, the Power Commander V and the PowerVision 3 are not even close to the same products...
 

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No 2 ways about it. The power vision is the most capable tuner there is right now. The pc5 had it's limits. So if a guy wants to make changes and have the capability to fine tune the power vision is it. I've got a tune on my bike from fuel Moto. I had to call them a couple times. They were friendly and treated me ok. But, their tune wasn't any better than the Dynojet tune. There's only so much to be had in all fairness. The majority of seat of the pants benefit is from the throttle strategies.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I like the Power vision 3, it has some very cool features, some are locked, with the PCV I was able to mod Accel pump features for throttle sensitivity, fuel, timing, raise max RPM level and eliminate decel popping, so it wasn't a slouch, but Power Vision for a power user would be better, for your average person who knows, unless somebody offered a professional map when you purchased it, Hmmmm....., I think we are all going to find out that the Dynojet maps are probably as good, in my case better, my bike runs terrible with the map from Fuelmoto, again I'm sure with some down time, emails, phone calls, riding with the unit connected to log data that eventually it will work out, they seem to stand by their willingness to help, but that's not the what I was sold, I was told I would get a dyno proven map, based on my type of performance products and was shown a Dyno chart with my model of bike and similar mods producing 103HP on there site. How does this get me to my bike runs terrible and I need to get a map from dynojet as they suggested.

If I am wrong, tell me so please, It wouldn't be the first time




scout_kw_ac.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My setup is a 2018 Scout Bobber 530 miles, Vance & Hines Twin slash slip ons and the Arlen Ness Torque Box intake
 

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I like the Power vision 3, it has some very cool features, some are locked, with the PCV I was able to mod Accel pump features for throttle sensitivity, fuel, timing, raise max RPM level and eliminate decel popping, so it wasn't a slouch, but Power Vision for a power user would be better, for your average person who knows, unless somebody offered a professional map when you purchased it, Hmmmm....., I think we are all going to find out that the Dynojet maps are probably as good, in my case better, my bike runs terrible with the map from Fuelmoto, again I'm sure with some down time, emails, phone calls, riding with the unit connected to log data that eventually it will work out, they seem to stand by their willingness to help, but that's not the what I was sold, I was told I would get a dyno proven map, based on my type of performance products and was shown a Dyno chart with my model of bike and similar mods producing 103HP on there site. How does this get me to my bike runs terrible and I need to get a map from dynojet as they suggested.

If I am wrong, tell me so please, It wouldn't be the first time

Now that I look at the dyno chart from there site, it's actually a Dynojet chart and they put there logo on it



View attachment 484112


You do realize that Dynojet makes most "Dyno's" and the data is presented with the Dynojet logo no matter who is using it right.............Anyone who uses a Dynojet Dynomometer will have the graph displaying Dynojet on it................
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
You do realize that Dynojet makes most "Dyno's" and the data is presented with the Dynojet logo no matter who is using it right.............Anyone who uses a Dynojet Dynomometer will have the graph displaying Dynojet on it................
I actually didn't know this, do you think this is the case? again I'm not saying there bad peeps, I just didn't get what I was sold. I had no problem paying for a professionally made map, some of there maps might be awesome, just not for my Scout, it ran terrible and I would say my set up is as close as you can get to the dyno setup on the chart without being exactly it. I have downloaded many Dynojet maps that are kinda close and they always run fine, maybe not perfect max power, this is why I paid the piper, I wanted it right.
 

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I actually didn't know this, do you think this is the case, again I'm not saying there bad peeps, I just didn't get what I was sold.

Pull up any Dyno graph from any company that uses a Dynojet Dyno and you will see Dynojet on the graph.

Some examples.

Dyno Tuning & Graphs | LLOYD'Z Motor Workz

Also the only way to properly tune a bike is on a Dyno or data collection. Canned tunes can work great for some and not so good for others as everyone has a different setup and their are too many variables involved.

Also your setup is V&H slip ons / Arlen Ness Torquebox the Dyno chart is an S&S airbox and Kromewerks mufflers. Not apples to apples at all.

The Vance and Hines and Krome wwerks would have to have identical back pressure and excursion and the [email protected] airbox and Torque box would have to be identical for any of this to have merit. And they are not.

Basically you have a different setup than what Fuel Motto had when they designed the tune. So your anger and frustration is misplaced.
 

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I'm willing to bet that these computers are similar to the ones on cars when you disconnect the battery for a while. It may take a couple drive cycles before the new flash really shines. Just an assumption, but I'd guess the computer has to re-analyze what's being fed to it. I have a PV3 from fuel moto and their tune for my current setup. First times I rode it, it stalled coming to a quick stop and pulling in the clutch. Only happened a couple times, and now with about 400 miles on this tune, it feels pretty froggy to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Pull up any Dyno graph from any company that uses a Dynojet Dyno and you will see Dynojet on the graph.

Some examples.

Dyno Tuning & Graphs | LLOYD'Z Motor Workz

Also the only way to properly tune a bike is on a Dyno or data collection. Canned tunes can work great for some and not so good for others as everyone has a different setup and their are too many variables involved.

Also your setup is V&H slip ons / Arlen Ness Torquebox the Dyno chart is an S&S airbox and Kromewerks mufflers. Not apples to apples at all.

The Vance and Hines and Krome wwerks would have to have identical back pressure and excursion and the [email protected] airbox and Torque box would have to be identical for any of this to have merit. And they are not.

Basically you have a different setup than what Fuel Motto had when they designed the tune. So your anger and frustration is misplaced.
While I'm not really angry, more disappointed, Remember my concern is what I was told, not What it is. I'm a pretty smart guy and Have built enough bikes and wrote enough of my own maps to understand they are not near as sensitive to different performance products as you make it sound, yep there could be a horse or Two left in her with the perfect tune, but you will always have a better performing machine using a map based on slip ons and intake, once the intake is opened it can only draw so much air, both intakes are way past there being a limit and other than decel popping two different brand of full breathing slip ons will be so close the average user would be hard pressed to tell the difference, example, I have built Three Harley nightster bobbers in the last Two years, all different pipes and intakes, used the same map I perfected for the first one and other than a couple fine adjustments to be picky they all screamed after I loaded the map on the PCV, proof is in the pudding. Trust me, there is no magic
 
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