[3bear]

I was curious how many people have had the miss-fire/dead cylinder issue. I have seen multiple post on the problem and was wondering how pervasive the issue is. I have had the issue with both cylinders at different times and have a customer complaint in with Indian at this time. So far I've been getting the run around by customer service, and everything that they have suggested to my dealer mechanic has been unsuccessful. My bike is a 2021 Challenger Dark Horse that I bought in June of '21. It has been in the shop for over 9 months on and off since I bought it. Currently it has just over 10k miles on it and I've missed a good chunk of the last riding season due to this issue. Unfortunately, Iowa lemon laws don't cover motorcycles and ATVs or I would have pursued that route already.

 

[TigerGA]

If you’re not getting satisfactory service and response, I’d write a letter to the President of IM, Michael Dougherty. Nothing lights a fire in corporation like a ball rolling down hill from the president’s office.

 

[Peacepipes]

My 22 Pursuit did it twice now. Both times I started the bike in about 40*. The second time it happened a couple weeks ago the bike had no power even after warming up before taking off. It was so bad I had to pull over and restart the bike. That seemed to correct the loss of power but I still had the check engine light on for most of the day.

 

[Ta-Tonka '20]

Pretty common issue. As of lately mine after the 3rd lloydz tune only does it when the temps are cold. Tried starting last week in "heated" garage and at 45°F bike went bonkers. Ran on 1 cylinder and then i shut it down... cranked back over and runs like a top. Ask why this bike is temperature sensitive? Below 40°F, almost 100% guaranteed a misfire and code. Not big deal now that i understand, the what, why and how to get code off of the dash.

 

[Baron58]

I was curious how many people have had the miss-fire/dead cylinder issue. I have seen multiple post on the problem and was wondering how pervasive the issue is. I have had the issue with both cylinders at different times and have a customer complaint in with Indian at this time. So far I've been getting the run around by customer service, and everything that they have suggested to my dealer mechanic has been unsuccessful. My bike is a 2021 Challenger Dark Horse that I bought in June of '21. It has been in the shop for over 9 months on and off since I bought it. Currently it has just over 10k miles on it and I've missed a good chunk of the last riding season due to this issue. Unfortunately, Iowa lemon laws don't cover motorcycles and ATVs or I would have pursued that route already.

See that's the issue, bike probably didn't need to be in the shop. Indian has a very sensitive misfire sensor. It will put the bike into limp mode. Shut the bike down, wait 2 minutes. And restart, if the bike runs fine, you are good. The code will stay put for 3 engine start stop cycles.

These misfires occur generally during cold weather starts. Simply shut the engine down (wait 2 minutes) and restart it.

All internal combustion engines will tend to have misfires during start. The issue is the logic is too damn sensitive. The maintenance manual has a big write up about it. And basically, says it will clear after 3 start cycles.

The EPA requires misfire detection so that the CAT stays hot.

On the heavyweights with the PV3 tuners, you were able to go in and select how many misfire events would trigger a code and limp mode. The standard was five. On the Challengers it is 3 misfires and a code and limpy mode time.

Also, the 11 to 1 compression ratio lends to start misfires especially with the leaner start mixtures.

 

[Baron58]

Off all the possible codes, the misfire has its own section in the Maintenace manual. Most likely because it will be common.

Basically, a variation in crankshaft speed triggers the misfire code. Like a cold rough running engine prior to warm up.

 

[3bear]

See that's the issue, bike probably didn't need to be in the shop. Indian has a very sensitive misfire sensor. It will put the bike into limp mode. Shut the bike down, wait 2 minutes. And restart, if the bike runs fine, you are good. The code will stay put for 3 engine start stop cycles.

These misfires occur generally during cold weather starts. Simply shut the engine down (wait 2 minutes) and restart it.

All internal combustion engines will tend to have misfires during start. The issue is the sensor is too damn sensitive. The maintenance manual has a big write up about it. And basically, says it will clear after 3 start cycles.

The EPA requires misfire detection so that the CAT stays hot.

On the heavyweights with the PV3 tuners, you were able to go in and select how many misfire events would trigger a code and limp mode. The standard was five. On the Challengers it is 3 misfires and a code and limpy mode time.

Also, the 11 to 1 compression ratio lends to start misfires especially with the leaner start mixtures.

The miss-fire dead cylinder issue is just one of many issues I've had with this machine. When you invest the money into a new machine, you expect it to be trouble free. I realize every manufacturer has it's problems with their products. You wouldn't think this is an ok situation with your car or truck? Why would you think it's ok with your go to fun machine? I came off of a Victory Cross Country. I put 50K of virtually trouble free miles on that bike. If it wasn't for the fact that I was concerned about future parts availability, I would still be on that bike. I refuse to accept that this is just the way this bike is. Not everyone is having the issue. That's the reason I made this post. I wanted to know how big or small the issue is across the board. If your bike is trouble free congratulations. Enjoy it. I have two friends with the same bike. Theirs are trouble free. That's all I want. A reliable machine.

 

[Baron58]

The miss-fire dead cylinder issue is just one of many issues I've had with this machine. When you invest the money into a new machine, you expect it to be trouble free. I realize every manufacturer has it's problems with their products. You wouldn't think this is an ok situation with your car or truck? Why would you think it's ok with your go to fun machine? I came off of a Victory Cross Country. I put 50K of virtually trouble free miles on that bike. If it wasn't for the fact that I was concerned about future parts availability, I would still be on that bike. I refuse to accept that this is just the way this bike is. Not everyone is having the issue. That's the reason I made this post. I wanted to know how big or small the issue is across the board. If your bike is trouble free congratulations. Enjoy it. I have two friends with the same bike. Theirs are trouble free. That's all I want. A reliable machine.

The issue is pretty widespread, just check out the FaceBook groups. The misfire is really nothing, your Victory did it as well, you just didn't have the overly sensitive ECU monitor that you have now.

The misfire is very very common on colds starts. There are 5 Challengers in my riding group, and they all do it in cold weather starts. And they have aftermarket tunes as well, Lloydz , RVS, etc. Some have 35K on their bikes and ridden across the country. And they still get the misfire cold on a cold weather start.

 

[3bear]

The issue is pretty widespread, just check out the FaceBook groups. The misfire is really nothing, your Victory did it as well, you just didn't have the overly sensitive ECU monitor that you have now.

The misfire is very very common on colds starts. There are 5 Challengers in my riding group, and they all do it in cold weather starts. And they have aftermarket tunes as well, Lloydz , RVS, etc. Some have 35K on their bikes and ridden across the country. And they still get the misfire cold on a cold weather start.

The issue is pretty widespread, just check out the FaceBook groups. The misfire is really nothing, your Victory did it as well, you just didn't have the overly sensitive ECU monitor that you have now.

The misfire is very very common on colds starts. There are 5 Challengers in my riding group, and they all do it in cold weather starts. And they have aftermarket tunes as well, Lloydz , RVS, etc. Some have 35K on their bikes and ridden across the country. And they still get the misfire cold on a cold weather start.

Again. If you find that the check engine light coming on and killing a cylinder is an acceptable part of the operation of your machine. That is on you. The computer shuts down the cylinder to prevent what it perceives as something that could damage the engine. Tempermental sensor or not. This should not be happening with a new machine. The problem doesn't get fixed by accepting it.

 

[Baron58]

I guess you didn't read my post correctly. There is no misfire sensor period. The ECU monitors crankshaft speed for varying speeds. Ant time you start a cold engine, it's possible to get a rough idle.

The misfire code does cause the engine to go into limp mode, and more for EPA regulations, the EPA wants no misfires, which is technically impossible on an internal combustion engine. The EPA requires limp mode, so you don't pollute with an occasional misfire.

If you get misfires on a warm engine that's something else entirely and could be an engine issue.

And yes, the ECU will prevent the engine from being damaged by putting in limp mode but that's the point you missed.

As I said, if you restart the engine and it runs NORMALLY (no limp mode) then it is perfectly fine.

The Indian error codes are over the top in many cases. Ans are all about nothing, that's why dealers can't find anything wrong, because nothing is.

For example: If you start the bike while it is moving (like backing out of your garage, or parking space), you will get an ECM Hardware monitoring failure that will tell you to trailer the bike to the dealer and not ride it because of damage.

This caused massive panic amongst riders until it was discovered this code is commonly thrown when the bike is moving. And will clear after 3 start cycles.

Also, during starts if the voltage drops below 10 volts during a start with a weak battery all kinds of codes will be thrown.

Yes, you want the bike to be perfect, but the reality it never will be.

Cars and trucks have sophisticated pollution control units, so they can run the tunes more optimal for the engines. Motorcycles don't (except for the Soviet Californiation). This means the tunes have to be run in a negative way to the engine which leads to more error codes.

 

[3bear]

Yes ,I read your post. And I have a good knowledge of mechanics and the electronics involved. Thank you for your indepth explanation. I do realize that misfires happen often with the internal combustion engine. If Indians computer sensitivity/programming is throwing codes and put the machine in limp mode prematurely, that is an issue. It needs to be addressed. The fix is Indian comes up with a solution. Not me accepting it as normal operation of the bike. I don't know what your daily 4 wheeled driver is, but if it went into limp mode before you left the garage you'd want to know what is wrong and want it fixed. We can all find ways to work around the problem. In the end we all just want to enjoy our machines. I can't enjoy mine if it's running on one cylinder and I have to jump through hoops to get past it. I find it obsurd that anyone would suggest that this is normal.

The issue is pretty widespread, just check out the FaceBook groups. The misfire is really nothing, your Victory did it as well, you just didn't have the overly sensitive ECU monitor that you have now.

The misfire is very very common on colds starts. There are 5 Challengers in my riding group, and they all do it in cold weather starts. And they have aftermarket tunes as well, Lloydz , RVS, etc. Some have 35K on their bikes and ridden across the country. And they still get the misfire cold on a cold weather start.

 

[Baron58]

Yes ,I read your post. And I have a good knowledge of mechanics and the electronics involved. Thank you for your indepth explanation. I do realize that misfires happen often with the internal combustion engine. If Indians computer sensitivity/programming is throwing codes and put the machine in limp mode prematurely, that is an issue. It needs to be addressed. The fix is Indian comes up with a solution. Not me accepting it as normal operation of the bike. I don't know what your daily 4 wheeled driver is, but if it went into limp mode before you left the garage you'd want to know what is wrong and want it fixed. We can all find ways to work around the problem. In the end we all just want to enjoy our machines. I can't enjoy mine if it's running on one cylinder and I have to jump through hoops to get past it. I find it obsurd that anyone would suggest that this is normal.

So, a search on codes on this forum, you will find it is pretty typical on all the models.

 

[Towny]

Thanks for the poll, interesting so far.

 

[Unruly One]

If Indians computer sensitivity/programming is throwing codes and put the machine in limp mode prematurely, that is an issue. It needs to be addressed. The fix is Indian comes up with a solution. Not me accepting it as normal operation of the bike.

Take it up with the EPA... they are to blame.

 

[Dieseldoc]

1 time I got a missfire warning and then 1 cyl shut down.This happened on my initial ride after getting my head pipes Jet Hot coated,all I can figure is the internal coating getting hot the first time threw off the O2 sensors and the ECU took the proper mixture out relying on bad data.Never happened again.

 

[Baron58]

1 time I got a missfire warning and then 1 cyl shut down.This happened on my initial ride after getting my head pipes Jet Hot coated,all I can figure is the internal coating getting hot the first time threw off the O2 sensors and the ECU took the proper mixture out relying on bad data.Never happened again.

According to Indian, the misfire detection is looking at crankshaft speed. So, if the crank shaft speed is not steady, (rough idle) or rough engine, it will throw the misfire code.