Indian Motorcycle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I discovered something interesting today. I have never been happy with my clutch action when launching from a stop. It seems as though it would slip in and out of engagement when I would let it out and accelerate. I ride in sport mode only. I adjusted the clutch at 500 miles to let out just a little sooner and it helped a little bit. After 4000 miles I noticed that the tires are not worn at all. The center compound of the tread is really hard. Good for mileage, maybe a little sketchy for real high speeds, which could explain the 110 mph speed limiter. So I turned off the traction control and the clutch is perfect. Indicating the rear tire starts to slip and the ECM cuts the power on and off. In other words it is hypersensitive. I did some speed runs and it feels like the bike was remapped. The dip in power is diminished on acceleration and is more linear. Moving forward, if there is no way to revise the sensitivity through programming, I will just turn it off around town and on the highway. In the twisties, I will leave it on as I have the LTD with the lean angle traction control and ABS. I can only think that the traction control sensitivity is creating some misfiring at low rpms especially in cold weather. I am in Vegas where it is riding weather year round and pretty dry so don't risk doing this if you live in Seattle. I also think the idle should be set 500 rpms higher based on the large V-Twin platform running with all the sensors and electronics. I would be curious as to what the factory changed as part of the reflash to fix the misfire. Personally, I wish Polaris would have ditched the ultra fancy electronics and all the sensors, and just kept the Ride Command. I have the stage 1 flash, intake and TAB mufflers with 2-1/2" baffles. Never had a problem. One time the motor stalled at a light. And twice, the orange chassis malfunction triangle went on at start up. Shut it off and restarted and it was gone. I have a Springfield Dark Horse as well and have struggled with the stupid sensors going haywire due to loose connections or the perfect storm of things happening that cannot be repeated. On both bikes, the motors are dead on reliable, but the overly complicated electronics take away from the peace of mind I had with my older bikes. I have 16,000 miles on the Springfield (2018 model still has a lot of the new technology).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
I discovered something interesting today. I have never been happy with my clutch action when launching from a stop. It seems as though it would slip in and out of engagement when I would let it out and accelerate. I ride in sport mode only. I adjusted the clutch at 500 miles to let out just a little sooner and it helped a little bit. After 4000 miles I noticed that the tires are not worn at all. The center compound of the tread is really hard. Good for mileage, maybe a little sketchy for real high speeds, which could explain the 110 mph speed limiter. So I turned off the traction control and the clutch is perfect. Indicating the rear tire starts to slip and the ECM cuts the power on and off. In other words it is hypersensitive. I did some speed runs and it feels like the bike was remapped. The dip in power is diminished on acceleration and is more linear. Moving forward, if there is no way to revise the sensitivity through programming, I will just turn it off around town and on the highway. In the twisties, I will leave it on as I have the LTD with the lean angle traction control and ABS. I can only think that the traction control sensitivity is creating some misfiring at low rpms especially in cold weather. I am in Vegas where it is riding weather year round and pretty dry so don't risk doing this if you live in Seattle. I also think the idle should be set 500 rpms higher based on the large V-Twin platform running with all the sensors and electronics. I would be curious as to what the factory changed as part of the reflash to fix the misfire. Personally, I wish Polaris would have ditched the ultra fancy electronics and all the sensors, and just kept the Ride Command. I have the stage 1 flash, intake and TAB mufflers with 2-1/2" baffles. Never had a problem. One time the motor stalled at a light. And twice, the orange chassis malfunction triangle went on at start up. Shut it off and restarted and it was gone. I have a Springfield Dark Horse as well and have struggled with the stupid sensors going haywire due to loose connections or the perfect storm of things happening that cannot be repeated. On both bikes, the motors are dead on reliable, but the overly complicated electronics take away from the peace of mind I had with my older bikes. I have 16,000 miles on the Springfield (2018 model still has a lot of the new technology).
Thanks for sharing brother! This is the only reason I come to this forum, for dudes like you that share valuable information that actually come from owning and riding a Challenger!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with fellow owners Grayrat!
 

·
Founding Member / Distinguished
Joined
·
4,385 Posts
Thanks for sharing brother! This is the only reason I come to this forum, for dudes like you that share valuable information that actually come from owning and riding a Challenger! I will suffer through all the guys that have an Indian but not a Challenger, and want to chime in on every effin post with meaningless banter just to feel like they need to be relevant (Hint: stay in the bike forum that you actual own), or the clowns that “like” every negative post about the Challenger because they need to justify owning an HD (Imarider).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with fellow owners Grayrat!
I’m sorry I hurt your feelings brother but just because I agree with some of the reasons about the misfire issues on the Challenger doesn’t meant I dislike the bike. In fact I think it’s a very good bike but as others even Indian owners I’m very curious about the misfire issues. I think you’re being a little over sensitive though. I’ve never justified why I ride a Harley and never will because I ride what I ride and you ride what you ride . So again I apologize your feelings were hurt and I promise in the future I’ll use the like button more judiciously
Your Friend IMARIDER


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Founding Member / Distinguished
Joined
·
4,385 Posts
I discovered something interesting today. I have never been happy with my clutch action when launching from a stop. It seems as though it would slip in and out of engagement when I would let it out and accelerate. I ride in sport mode only. I adjusted the clutch at 500 miles to let out just a little sooner and it helped a little bit. After 4000 miles I noticed that the tires are not worn at all. The center compound of the tread is really hard. Good for mileage, maybe a little sketchy for real high speeds, which could explain the 110 mph speed limiter. So I turned off the traction control and the clutch is perfect. Indicating the rear tire starts to slip and the ECM cuts the power on and off. In other words it is hypersensitive. I did some speed runs and it feels like the bike was remapped. The dip in power is diminished on acceleration and is more linear. Moving forward, if there is no way to revise the sensitivity through programming, I will just turn it off around town and on the highway. In the twisties, I will leave it on as I have the LTD with the lean angle traction control and ABS. I can only think that the traction control sensitivity is creating some misfiring at low rpms especially in cold weather. I am in Vegas where it is riding weather year round and pretty dry so don't risk doing this if you live in Seattle. I also think the idle should be set 500 rpms higher based on the large V-Twin platform running with all the sensors and electronics. I would be curious as to what the factory changed as part of the reflash to fix the misfire. Personally, I wish Polaris would have ditched the ultra fancy electronics and all the sensors, and just kept the Ride Command. I have the stage 1 flash, intake and TAB mufflers with 2-1/2" baffles. Never had a problem. One time the motor stalled at a light. And twice, the orange chassis malfunction triangle went on at start up. Shut it off and restarted and it was gone. I have a Springfield Dark Horse as well and have struggled with the stupid sensors going haywire due to loose connections or the perfect storm of things happening that cannot be repeated. On both bikes, the motors are dead on reliable, but the overly complicated electronics take away from the peace of mind I had with my older bikes. I have 16,000 miles on the Springfield (2018 model still has a lot of the new technology).
Sounds like you might have stumbled onto something. In Cycle Worlds comparison test between the Challenger and Road Glide they felt that the traction control stepped in early on the Challenger,


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
3,973 Posts
I discovered something interesting today. I have never been happy with my clutch action when launching from a stop. It seems as though it would slip in and out of engagement when I would let it out and accelerate. I ride in sport mode only. I adjusted the clutch at 500 miles to let out just a little sooner and it helped a little bit. After 4000 miles I noticed that the tires are not worn at all. The center compound of the tread is really hard. Good for mileage, maybe a little sketchy for real high speeds, which could explain the 110 mph speed limiter. So I turned off the traction control and the clutch is perfect. Indicating the rear tire starts to slip and the ECM cuts the power on and off. In other words it is hypersensitive. I did some speed runs and it feels like the bike was remapped. The dip in power is diminished on acceleration and is more linear. Moving forward, if there is no way to revise the sensitivity through programming, I will just turn it off around town and on the highway. In the twisties, I will leave it on as I have the LTD with the lean angle traction control and ABS. I can only think that the traction control sensitivity is creating some misfiring at low rpms especially in cold weather. I am in Vegas where it is riding weather year round and pretty dry so don't risk doing this if you live in Seattle. I also think the idle should be set 500 rpms higher based on the large V-Twin platform running with all the sensors and electronics. I would be curious as to what the factory changed as part of the reflash to fix the misfire. Personally, I wish Polaris would have ditched the ultra fancy electronics and all the sensors, and just kept the Ride Command. I have the stage 1 flash, intake and TAB mufflers with 2-1/2" baffles. Never had a problem. One time the motor stalled at a light. And twice, the orange chassis malfunction triangle went on at start up. Shut it off and restarted and it was gone. I have a Springfield Dark Horse as well and have struggled with the stupid sensors going haywire due to loose connections or the perfect storm of things happening that cannot be repeated. On both bikes, the motors are dead on reliable, but the overly complicated electronics take away from the peace of mind I had with my older bikes. I have 16,000 miles on the Springfield (2018 model still has a lot of the new technology).
All the fancy training wheels electronics are here to stay. Harley has a similar system available at an extra cost on the Road Glide. Cars and trucks have been going this direction for a while and it’s getting worse. They are trying to sell safety and the insurance companies are eating it up.

The misfire has more to do with the oversensitive new Bosch ECU than anything else. All engines misfire to a point and V Twins more so than others. Indian has a new flash and procedure to minimize misfires. Misfire protection is a newer EPA mandated standard, misfires don’t burn fuel completely and pollute the air. The misfires aren’t hurting the Challenger, it’s the ECU putting it in limp mode that is. And it also looks like they had issues with production minke throttle bodies as the service bulletin has them replaced if they aren’t within a certain sync spec.

the reason the bikes run like crap cold is because of the excessively lean mixture to make the EPA happy. Remember when we had choke, that was to enriched the hell out of the mixture so the cold engine would run.

the 111 were also similar and still are unless you have a tune which enriches the mixture at idle and low power settings
 

·
Founding Member / Distinguished
Joined
·
4,385 Posts
You juicebox, I’m 53 years young, your stupid ass will never hurt my feelings. I just notice all the patterns, you love every negative thing about the Challenger. I’ve noticed it very easily, you jam up Indian every chance you get. Your ”goofy” likes on every post negative about the Challenger. If you own one, fuggn sell it. If you don’t own one but have a HD, then shut up. Guys just like you have made me stay away from being associated with HD. My nephew has had 4 HDs. 1 SG and 3 RGs, I would never say a bad thing about HDs to him because he’s a great guy that loves the sound and looks of HD. I love that about him! He only owns one HD tshirt... I bet you have a shit load of Harley gear. For the record, I’m not your friend and I live in WV, 30 minutes west from Pittsburgh in Weirton WV, if you ever want to ride with me.
Lol so you’re inviting me to a ride but you say I’m not your friend that’s strange. You’re really really over reacting over this whole thing with all the name calling. It’s just a motorcycle just like Harleys are just motorcycles. We’re all here to make friends and enjoy talking about motorcycles in an adult calm manner. Now judging by your recent comments I’ve clearly hurt your feelings in some way and again I apologize for doing so. If me liking something gets under your skin might I suggest quit checking who likes what ? I think it will help with your well being.
In the meantime enjoy that beautiful new bike and ride safe
IMARIDER


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Rider
Joined
·
504 Posts
All the fancy training wheels electronics are here to stay. Harley has a similar system available at an extra cost on the Road Glide. Cars and trucks have been going this direction for a while and it’s getting worse. They are trying to sell safety and the insurance companies are eating it up.

The misfire has more to do with the oversensitive new Bosch ECU than anything else. All engines misfire to a point and V Twins more so than others. Indian has a new flash and procedure to minimize misfires. Misfire protection is a newer EPA mandated standard, misfires don’t burn fuel completely and pollute the air. The misfires aren’t hurting the Challenger, it’s the ECU putting it in limp mode that is. And it also looks like they had issues with production minke throttle bodies as the service bulletin has them replaced if they aren’t within a certain sync spec.

the reason the bikes run like crap cold is because of the excessively lean mixture to make the EPA happy. Remember when we had choke, that was to enriched the hell out of the mixture so the cold engine would run.

the 111 were also similar and still are unless you have a tune which enriches the mixture at idle and low power settings
Just another reason to be excited when someone finally cracks the ECU on these things!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baron58

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Lol so you’re inviting me to a ride but you say I’m not your friend that’s strange. You’re really really over reacting over this whole thing with all the name calling. It’s just a motorcycle just like Harleys are just motorcycles. We’re all here to make friends and enjoy talking about motorcycles in an adult calm manner. Now judging by your recent comments I’ve clearly hurt your feelings in some way and again I apologize for doing so. If me liking something gets under your skin might I suggest quit checking who likes what ? I think it will help with your well being.
In the meantime enjoy that beautiful new bike and ride safe
IMARIDER


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I did over react, my apologies. Name calling not necessary at all or warranted. I love all type of bikes and ride with all type of bikes. If you ever are in the area let me know and we can take that ride! Shiny side up!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I'm afraid that whatever tuner comes out, that it will not interface with the 2 VCM'S that are connected to the sensors. The only sensor that makes any sense to me is the tire pressure monitors, as checking tire pressure manually is a pain in the ass on the Challenger. I had a KTM 1290SAR which is a water cooled V-twin which I got rid of 6 months after purchase primarily because the bike had way too many gadgets, sensors and electronic to take it in the dirt. KTM has virtually no warranty and their customer service is non-existent. I know because my rear brake abs locked up the first time I too it on a dirt road and exploded the brake caliper. The dealer which has 5 brands of bikes and 2 brands of 4 wheelers assumed the factory would cover it, as the bike had 1500 miles on it and was obviously never dropped, but the factory denyed the claim and i was stuck with a $1400 bill and I was without the bike for 2 weeks. I sold the piece of crap and never looked back. If Polaris has to have all these sensors which can cause the bike to shut off and ruin rider confidence to meet the EPA and government regulations then they should provide a back door to shutting them off and tip off someone in the aftermarket so they can bypass the limp mode feature and let us ride these bikes 100,000 miles with confidence.
 

·
Silver member
Joined
·
4,867 Posts
I'm afraid that whatever tuner comes out, that it will not interface with the 2 VCM'S that are connected to the sensors. The only sensor that makes any sense to me is the tire pressure monitors, as checking tire pressure manually is a pain in the ass on the Challenger. I had a KTM 1290SAR which is a water cooled V-twin which I got rid of 6 months after purchase primarily because the bike had way too many gadgets, sensors and electronic to take it in the dirt. KTM has virtually no warranty and their customer service is non-existent. I know because my rear brake abs locked up the first time I too it on a dirt road and exploded the brake caliper. The dealer which has 5 brands of bikes and 2 brands of 4 wheelers assumed the factory would cover it, as the bike had 1500 miles on it and was obviously never dropped, but the factory denyed the claim and i was stuck with a $1400 bill and I was without the bike for 2 weeks. I sold the piece of crap and never looked back. If Polaris has to have all these sensors which can cause the bike to shut off and ruin rider confidence to meet the EPA and government regulations then they should provide a back door to shutting them off and tip off someone in the aftermarket so they can bypass the limp mode feature and let us ride these bikes 100,000 miles with confidence.
My opinion.... you nailed it in this post and in your previous post. The newer I/P bikes are indeed overloaded with sensors. There's the gov/EPA, then there is desire of Polaris to load on the sensors. EPA for obvious reasons, save the planet :rolleyes: plus gov. employees need to justify their jobs/positions by coming up with all the great new safety ideas. Polaris is on board so they can brag on all the latest and greatest technoligy built into the bikes. And if a rider goes down and gets killed or seriously injured the I/P lawyers can go to court with a defense of having all the safety and life saving tech built into the bike. In the meantime, sensors fail and or are over sensitive therefore putting the rider in jeopardy because the engine fails whilst on the road... perfect!! LOL.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I would gladly void the warranty to get real reliability. A 2 year warranty is worthless if you have one long vacation every 6 months and 2 days into a 10 day bike trip you are stuck on the side of the road because a "misfire" killed the motor out on the open road. Polaris, are you listening? Fix it once and forever, or get rid of some of the "overkill" technology. We wanted the water cooled motor and we really like the GPS, ABS, new suspension, locking saddlebags, and the much improved sound system. Ditch the light show, or let us turn it off at our own risk. My Challenger already runs better, just by turning off the traction control. At least you gave us that option. Or change the sensitivity level on sport mode.
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
3,356 Posts
well maybe they should have made a Limited/DH with the lean tech optional like a Harley?.. taking a grand off of the price might have moved even more of these bikes... but I have a feeling the price point would have started where it's at and the grand would have been added on..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Isn't traction control standard on the base model? Someone with a base model chime in here. I don't think the lean angle portion of the second VCM has anything to do with the problems we are experiencing. If you think about it, having traction control and ABS to prevent a slide out on a high speed corner based on lean angle is a fairly logical technology. As stated by some of the magazines, this technology has been used on sport bikes for somewhere between 10-20 years. It may actually have value when combined with the rock hard rubber compound of these tires. I for one am not a fan of changing worn out tires, and would be very happy to have these tires last 15-20K miles. Sport bike tires last 2-8K miles depending on the bike, rider and stickiness of the compound but decent Dunlops or Bridgestones are not too expensive and you can jack your sportbike up to remove the wheels with swingarm and fork stands in minutes. On our bikes you are looking at a dealer doing both tires for $800 or thereabouts. You have limited choices and few tire places who want to do Indians. I had to replace tires on my Springfield at Stugis last year. JP cycle had the Dunlop Elites, but their installers said they wouldn't do Indians. Fortunately I talked one of the techs into doing it and I removed the saddlebags and wiring harnesses for him. That was a 4400 mile road trip and I was plagued with the Polaris "light show" the whole trip. Clearing codes for rich running, misfire, tire pressure sensor malfunctions. I was furious. I changed my plugs at 14000 during the trip and that cleared the check engine. It turned out that Indian recommends changing the plugs every 30,000 miles. For $8, I bought plugs at JP cycle and that issue went away. The check engine happened 2 days into a 2 week trip. I would pull over. Shut off the bike, wait 10 seconds and restart. Cleared the code and would be good to go for a day or 2 before it happened again. I will change my plugs every 5-10K on the Challenger.cheap insurance. The tire pressure monitors get dirty and sometimes the battery runs out so make sure you have ask the dealer to clean the TPM's. Batteries are supposed to last 5 years but who knows how long they sit on the shelf at Polaris. They have to be calibrated by an Indian dealer. Special tool that is proprietary.
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
3,973 Posts
Isn't traction control standard on the base model? Someone with a base model chime in here. I don't think the lean angle portion of the second VCM has anything to do with the problems we are experiencing. If you think about it, having traction control and ABS to prevent a slide out on a high speed corner based on lean angle is a fairly logical technology. As stated by some of the magazines, this technology has been used on sport bikes for somewhere between 10-20 years. It may actually have value when combined with the rock hard rubber compound of these tires. I for one am not a fan of changing worn out tires, and would be very happy to have these tires last 15-20K miles. Sport bike tires last 2-8K miles depending on the bike, rider and stickiness of the compound but decent Dunlops or Bridgestones are not too expensive and you can jack your sportbike up to remove the wheels with swingarm and fork stands in minutes. On our bikes you are looking at a dealer doing both tires for $800 or thereabouts. You have limited choices and few tire places who want to do Indians. I had to replace tires on my Springfield at Stugis last year. JP cycle had the Dunlop Elites, but their installers said they wouldn't do Indians. Fortunately I talked one of the techs into doing it and I removed the saddlebags and wiring harnesses for him. That was a 4400 mile road trip and I was plagued with the Polaris "light show" the whole trip. Clearing codes for rich running, misfire, tire pressure sensor malfunctions. I was furious. I changed my plugs at 14000 during the trip and that cleared the check engine. It turned out that Indian recommends changing the plugs every 30,000 miles. For $8, I bought plugs at JP cycle and that issue went away. The check engine happened 2 days into a 2 week trip. I would pull over. Shut off the bike, wait 10 seconds and restart. Cleared the code and would be good to go for a day or 2 before it happened again. I will change my plugs every 5-10K on the Challenger.cheap insurance. The tire pressure monitors get dirty and sometimes the battery runs out so make sure you have ask the dealer to clean the TPM's. Batteries are supposed to last 5 years but who knows how long they sit on the shelf at Polaris. They have to be calibrated by an Indian dealer. Special tool that is proprietary.

Nope: Traction control is not on the base models. And base models have had the same mis-fire issue
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
I bel
Nope: Traction control is not on the base models. And base models have had the same mis-fire issue
Nope: Traction control is not on the base models. And base models have had the same mis-fire issue
I believe there is traction control for straight line acceleration as there is a spot to turn off in ride command. I have the base model and have yet to have a problem. I do have an appointment on Thursday for the new flash and tb check.
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
3,973 Posts
I bel


I believe there is traction control for straight line acceleration as there is a spot to turn off in ride command. I have the base model and have yet to have a problem. I do have an appointment on Thursday for the new flash and tb check.

Nope, zero traction control on the base model challenger. Zero. You might be confusing rain mode on the ride modes.

Rain mode is not a traction control system, it simply delays the rate and percentage the throttle opens with the twist of the throttle grip.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
524 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
So when you start up the base model, there is no TC light on the dash that goes off and the TC on/off switch on ride command doesn't activate a light next to the ABS light on the upper dash? I want to make sure someone who owns a base model chimes in here.
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top