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Discussion Starter #1
I have a stage 3 setup on my 2016 Chieftain. I have the Indian Stage 1 pipes, Big air cleaner and find them a little louder than I like these days. Would putting the stock mufflers back on impede performance? I have been told that the stock muffler would not inhibit the exhaust gas velocity or restrict volume sufficiently to create a performance decrease and then have heard the contrary as well. Anyone have an informed opinion on this exercise?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
After doing more searching I have found what appears to be a few cases where the stock pipes work with the stage 3 kit without any performance reduction.I think there are two members here that have done that as far as I can tell. Next week I will likely be installing a Rinehart Slimline header and then replacing the Indian Stage 1 mufflers with the stockers for a bit less volume. If I like the result I may sell the Stage one Indian mufflers with the black six shooter tips. I will update with results when I get the chance. Hoping for a good outcome.
 

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Be sure to knock out the plugs on the stock slipons before remounting them.. Without plugs, the stock slipons are a superior performance choice to many/most aftermarket slipons. Also, without plugs, they are only slightly louder than when they were stock.

Here is a link: How to remove exhaust plugs. (Punch the plugs) For...
 
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After doing more searching I have found what appears to be a few cases where the stock pipes work with the stage 3 kit without any performance reduction.I think there are two members here that have done that as far as I can tell. Next week I will likely be installing a Rinehart Slimline header and then replacing the Indian Stage 1 mufflers with the stockers for a bit less volume. If I like the result I may sell the Stage one Indian mufflers with the black six shooter tips. I will update with results when I get the chance. Hoping for a good outcome.
You can, but the better solution would be to punch out the plugs in the stock slipon, then it does perform as well as any aftermarket slip-on. It does not add that much volume to the exhaust.

Just a comment. The Rinehart Slimline header and stock slip-ons will perform better then if you went with a True Dual and kept the stage 1 slip-ons.
 

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Craig and I posted within a few seconds of eachother, lol... But we both know of the years of data (dyno charts, etc) that indicate with certainty that the stock slipons (once de-plug'd) are a top performer - possibly only beaten by the Indian Stage 1 slipons when mods go to stage 3.

We know that baffle sizes of 2.5" ( and up ) actually reduce power significantly (7 lb ft loss over Indian Stage 1 slipons in one back-to-back dyno test) ...

A rare serendipity occurs with the 111, quieter baffles make more power than loud ones !
 

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I'm considering knocking the plugs out of my stock pipes but I haven't heard a 111 with the plugs knocked out yet. The stock ones sound ok from the saddle, a little louder would be good, a lot louder wouldn't.. But I'd have to hear for myself before I do it.
anyone have a before/after recording?
 

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The stock Indian exhausts are made by Remus.

That is why Remus does not have an aftermarket offering for the Indin bikes.

HTH.
 

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I have Stage2 plus PVCX and want more quiet than my catless Stage 1 slipons. I bought a set of totally stock takeoffs with plugs intact. If I’m not looking for max performance and rarely do wide open throttle, do you think the change to the stock pipes will cause any ride ability issues. I just want my quiet back...especially since the PVCX eliminated the “clack”.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yesterday I replaced the stock header with the Jackpot header. I also replaced my Indian stage 1 pipes with the stock pipes after doing as Craig suggested and drilled out the plugs in each one. A bit of an all day project after assembling and disassembling to get the clamps and heat shield replacement clamps in the best position along with trip into town for Bi Metal 1.5 inch hole saw etc..
The original reason I wanted to trade off the stock header for the jackpot is for heat reduction as well as any performance gains I might get from the switch. The stage 1 pipes sound great but I wanted a bit more subdued volume for long trip conversations and music listening to be a bit easier so as to not compete as much with overcoming the exhaust volume.
The results are quite good. The noise level of the exhaust is definitely quieter than the stage 1 pipes although not dramatically. The most pleasant benefit is at steady throttle cruising the sound is at its most quiet place. When giving it the gas or chopping the throttle , it still barks and makes a nice deep growl and lets you know there is still some big jugs and a free breathing exhaust ready to play. I would gauge the sound at right about about the mid point between my Chieftain as stock and where it was with The Stage three kit and Stage one Indian slip ons. I am kinda digging where it is now for my purposes.
A final note to Craig. Thanks for the feedback and I have a request in to Fuel Moto for the tunes as of yesterday. So hopefully I will try the two tunes you suggested for comparisons.
 

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Craig and I posted within a few seconds of eachother, lol... But we both know of the years of data (dyno charts, etc) that indicate with certainty that the stock slipons (once de-plug'd) are a top performer - possibly only beaten by the Indian Stage 1 slipons when mods go to stage 3.

We know that baffle sizes of 2.5" ( and up ) actually reduce power significantly (7 lb ft loss over Indian Stage 1 slipons in one back-to-back dyno test) ...

A rare serendipity occurs with the 111, quieter baffles make more power than loud ones !


This actually makes 100 percent sense for these reasons.

It has been beaten into the psyche of everyone for years by aftermarket companies that stock exhaust is bad and hurts performance. But think about this. With all the EPA rules in fueling and ignition timing that last thing the manufacturer wants to do is put a poorer performing exhaust on the bike. Because they are already killing performance with the tune to meet regulatory requirements. Most aftermarket exhaust companies do ZERO engineering on scavenging and efficiency. They simply are great craftsman who bend metal pipe and weld it together. The bigger baffles give you that sound that we all love at the expense of power. Many independent tests have PROVEN that stock exhaust systems on motorcycles actually perform very well, and the reason to replace them is for aesthetics and sound.


The CAT on these bikes also is very free flowing and has almost no effect negatively. Tests have also proven this. The CAT is removed for heat.

No aftermarket exhaust company I know of posts dyno graphs for before and after just with the exhaust mod. It is always associated with a tune and intake (which also doesn't do much either).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have never had the bike dyno'd so I cannot give any numbers to substantiate my own opinions but after a spirited ride yesterday to shake it down good I found no loss in power or performance in any gear at any rev range from before the change.Maybe the better flow of the Jackpot header and perhaps the plug free stock mufflers perform as well as the setup I had. One benefit I did find is that the decel popping I noticed occasionally before seems quite reduced to near zero now. Could be tuning works better with this setup or the stock mufflers may do a better job of masking the sound a bit. I will update when I get a chance to try the new tunes from Fuel Moto and see how she goes..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok... This is my Chieftain with the Jackpot headers and factory stock mufflers with the plugs drilled out. I just loaded the Craig's Stage 3 Fuel Moto tune and gave her a crank. I have not yet hit the road as that will be tomorrow weather permitting. Sounds good but I notice with the Jackpot header I have what some here refer to the metallic sound around the header area at idle. It actually reminds me a bit of my GMC Sprint with Flowmaster 40s on. Kinda has that open muffler voice that the Flowmasters' have. Not necessarily my first choice but then again it gives it a modified performance sound that is a bit pleasing as well so I am not opposed to it. Some folks on here wanted to hear the Jackpot with the plug free stock mufflers so here it is. Keep in mind that this is a stage 3 so the cam lift and duration will be a bit more aggressive than the stock cams so may be a bit different but you should get the idea..

 

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The other day I went and knocked the plugs out of my stock mufflers. Pretty easy job. I'm really happy with the sound, it's just what I was looking for. Bike is stock otherwise.
Did the same thing instead of buying the Indian stage 1 slip-on mufflers.
Sounds great
 

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I have Stage2 plus PVCX and want more quiet than my catless Stage 1 slipons. I bought a set of totally stock takeoffs with plugs intact. If I’m not looking for max performance and rarely do wide open throttle, do you think the change to the stock pipes will cause any ride ability issues. I just want my quiet back...especially since the PVCX eliminated the “clack”.
I am curious how well your bike performs with the PVCX. I thought about doing a power commander to improve the engine on mine but the dealership says those cause problems with an Indian. so I am hearing both sides that either they work well or they do not
 

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I am curious how well your bike performs with the PVCX. I thought about doing a power commander to improve the engine on mine but the dealership says those cause problems with an Indian. so I am hearing both sides that either they work well or they do not
Power commander is old tech and was good when they first came out. But the PV3/PVCX allows to to actually reprogram the ECU and fix things in the first place instead of trying to alter the factory tune on the fly and only a few things at that.
 
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