1000.00 + for 5 HP that you won't see until 120 MPH is a great deal....................
LLoyd’s tune for the 22’ super Chief Ltd.
Well I am finally going to get the fuel pump and kickstand recall taken care of. I just found out that the Indian dealer that is about an hour away is a Loydz remote tune shop. So I am going to have them do the tune to my bike. I have the Freedom exhaust and the Indian round high flow intake. The bike is running lean as I have decel popping which is absolutely annoying. I hope this solves that issue as it is the only choice I have. It is kinda expensive so I hopes this works. Anyone else run into this issue and did the tune solve or drastically reduce the popping?
41 - 60 of 79 Posts
1000.00 + for 5 HP that you won't see until 120 MPH is a great deal....................
Id be interested to see Stock Air intake and exhaust with Cams vs modified air intake and slipons/Full exhaust with cams dyno sheet1000.00 + for 5 HP that you won't see until 120 MPH is a great deal....................
I mean it's money so who cares....just cause it's not worth it to you doesn't mean a thing1000.00 + for 5 HP that you won't see until 120 MPH is a great deal....................
I mean altering stock mufflers no longer makes it stock if we are grasping at strawsThe best numbers on a 111/116 was with the stock exhaust with the stock mufflers with the plugs punched out. 1.7" bafflers give the best torque to HP numbers. 1.7 ' baffles are unfortuneately quiet.
Look and do a search on the Thunderstroke performance pages. Here tons of info on how these bikes are pretty much maxed out. You have to go cams to get any more real power.
Like rogue said it's subjective. You disproved your own argument so stop misleading people. 3hp on a 90hp motor is roughly a 4% gain. Plenty of people in plenty of performance industries will pay WAY more than $1000 to pickup that type of gain.1000.00 + for 5 HP that you won't see until 120 MPH is a great deal....................
Just cause you're too cheap to feel that investment is worth it doesn't mean you should lie and mislead people about it.
A 3 or even 6 hp gain is not noticeable when measuring by the seat of your pants. What we perceive as "power" is actually TQ, and there is no TQ gain by adding slip-ons/intake. That is the argument that Baron is trying to make.
I mean what one perceives is completely subjective to what they know. Yeah the average person notices torque sure I won't disagree but for someone with even some minor knowledge noticing lay over before a shift can 100% allow you to feel a negligible horsepower difference especially when that small amount may carry the overall curve further up the rpm band.A 3 or even 6 hp gain is not noticeable when measuring by the seat of your pants. What we perceive as "power" is actually TQ, and there is no TQ gain by adding slip-ons/intake. That is the argument that Baron is trying to make.
That is not necessarily true. You are still feeling torque. Your peak HP just determines where in the band you feel that torque. In the scenario that we are discussing, such a negligible change in HP is only shifting the peak output by 500 rpm.I mean what one perceives is completely subjective to what they know. Yeah the average person notices torque sure I won't disagree but for someone with even some minor knowledge noticing lay over before a shift can 100% allow you to feel a negligible horsepower difference especially when that small amount may carry the overall curve further up the rpm band.
Here is an interesting read where someone much more intelligent than I can articulate:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/154dix
Cams would show a hp increase for sure.Id be interested to see Stock Air intake and exhaust with Cams vs modified air intake and slipons/Full exhaust with cams dyno sheet
Yeah but its only equally not necessarily true as the relation of torque and horsepower. You cant feel horsepower without torque because the latter is literally part of the definition of the measurement. So yes you're correct you're always feeling a relation to torque, but you and I both know that in layman's terms people describe torque as the low end hit and the horsepower as the high end carry through on the pull. My initial statement is based on comparing typical trends seen when gaining power as proven by most worth while dyno graphs. Often times the best "tune" or "combo" will not be the best and highest dyno queen number you can make but rather the broadest increase and best curve. Hence my comments about layover. If picking up a measly 5hp (which I still stand by my statement that 5hp is not negligible on a 90hp base in a 700lb vehicle) is also both improving the horsepower consistently and also carrying the curve out further in the RPM band its not a negligible change.That is not necessarily true. You are still feeling torque. Your peak HP just determines where in the band you feel that torque. In the scenario that we are discussing, such a negligible change in HP is only shifting the peak output by 500 rpm.
Here is an interesting read where someone much more intelligent than I can articulate:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/154dix
I can agree with that for a car, or even a different bike, with a broader rev range where you can take advantage of that, but on the TS engine, where the redline is only 5500 (ish if I recall correctly), shifting the curve by only 500 rpms is still negligible as there is a physically defined ceiling that cannot be changed without further engine modification (cams, stage 2, BBKs).Yeah but its only equally not necessarily true as the relation of torque and horsepower. You cant feel horsepower without torque because the latter is literally part of the definition of the measurement. So yes you're correct you're always feeling a relation to torque, but you and I both know that in layman's terms people describe torque as the low end hit and the horsepower as the high end carry through on the pull. My initial statement is based on comparing typical trends seen when gaining power as proven by most worth while dyno graphs. Often times the best "tune" or "combo" will not be the best and highest dyno queen number you can make but rather the broadest increase and best curve. Hence my comments about layover. If picking up a measly 5hp (which I still stand by my statement that 5hp is not negligible on a 90hp base in a 700lb vehicle) is also both improving the horsepower consistently and also carrying the curve out further in the RPM band its not a negligible change.
Honestly Discussing performance on these bikes is kinda fruitless. These are not performance vehicles and no add on or tune will change that. There are 600cc and 750cc bikes that will eat our Indians for lunch. But torque is a different issue.
I mean physics is physics. Just because the TS doesnt have enough of a powerband to be worthwhile in your opinion doesnt mean its not worthwhile period to shift the powerband. Plus, lets assume your 500 rpm number is correct, I honestly dont know, but if pulling the curve up by 500 rpms is keeping the rest of the RPM band in lets just say a 20% increased power state instead of falling off faster earlier theres going to be a huge noticeable change to a person actually shifting the bike at WOT redline.I can agree with that for a car, or even a different bike, with a broader rev range where you can take advantage of that, but on the TS engine, where the redline is only 5500 (ish if I recall correctly), shifting the curve by only 500 rpms is still negligible as there is a physically defined ceiling that cannot be changed without further engine modification (cams, stage 2, BBKs).
I say this because not only does theory support it, I mean you even said it yourself despite thinking its negligible on a TS but also because I own one and watched the layover move from 4500 rpms to more like 5400. Which made the seat of the pant feel of full throttle redline pulls feel significantly better. Now that shift doesnt mean that mathmatically the peak powerband moved that far but if your 500 rpm shift is enough to get the major fall off past redline than thats a huge improvement in seat of the pants feel as a result of horsepower curve.
I’m always fascinated with these performance discussions. Everyone including manufacturers/suppliers has an opinion on what performance modifications give you the most bang for the $ buck. Ultimately it comes down to: How much power/torque do you want to make and how much are you willing to spend to get it.
I currently own 4 Indians.
My Chief Bobber DH and Scout Bobber are what I consider heavily modified. I used an All of the Above approach.
1) Chief: intake, exhaust, injectors, throttle body, cams and tune.
2) Scout: intake, exhaust, BBK, cams, tune
I can’t say which component yielded the biggest gain. I only know the end result of the “entire package.” I know what power/torque the bikes made stock and I know what power/torque they make now.
3) FTR: I consider lightly modified. Stock intake, exhaust, engine with - Lloyd’z V6 tune. The FTR came from the factory with a pretty good overall performance package but the tuning was poor. It was holding back the potential of the engine.
4) Challenger Limited - Unmodified- Bone Stock.
As far as I can tell the stock 108 PowerPlus is a pretty good package from the factory. Intake, exhaust, cams and tune don’t seem to yield that much gain vs the cost of the modifications. Intake and slip-on exhaust don’t really add power/torque. But sound is improved. Stage 2 cams maybe a 7-8% gain but expensive as you have to drop the engine. Lloyd’z tune removes 110 mph speed limit and makes throttle response a little snappier but is $650.
So the bottom line is: How satisfied are you with the power/torque of your stock bike and how much are you willing to spend to get a noticeable (about 10%) power/torque increase?
Each individual can only answer that for themselves.
I currently own 4 Indians.
My Chief Bobber DH and Scout Bobber are what I consider heavily modified. I used an All of the Above approach.
1) Chief: intake, exhaust, injectors, throttle body, cams and tune.
2) Scout: intake, exhaust, BBK, cams, tune
I can’t say which component yielded the biggest gain. I only know the end result of the “entire package.” I know what power/torque the bikes made stock and I know what power/torque they make now.
3) FTR: I consider lightly modified. Stock intake, exhaust, engine with - Lloyd’z V6 tune. The FTR came from the factory with a pretty good overall performance package but the tuning was poor. It was holding back the potential of the engine.
4) Challenger Limited - Unmodified- Bone Stock.
As far as I can tell the stock 108 PowerPlus is a pretty good package from the factory. Intake, exhaust, cams and tune don’t seem to yield that much gain vs the cost of the modifications. Intake and slip-on exhaust don’t really add power/torque. But sound is improved. Stage 2 cams maybe a 7-8% gain but expensive as you have to drop the engine. Lloyd’z tune removes 110 mph speed limit and makes throttle response a little snappier but is $650.
So the bottom line is: How satisfied are you with the power/torque of your stock bike and how much are you willing to spend to get a noticeable (about 10%) power/torque increase?
Each individual can only answer that for themselves.
The point of what this thread has devolved into is whether or not stage 1 makes a difference on the Chief, so that is the specific points I have been talking to this whole time. And the dynos that were posted show exact numbers for the TS111 (including where I pulled the 500 RPM shift on the TQ curve from 2,700 to 3,200. HP is actually less and only shifts by 300 RPMs thanks to removing the rev limiter).I mean physics is physics. Just because the TS doesnt have enough of a powerband to be worthwhile in your opinion doesnt mean its not worthwhile period to shift the powerband. Plus, lets assume your 500 rpm number is correct, I honestly dont know, but if pulling the curve up by 500 rpms is keeping the rest of the RPM band in lets just say a 20% increased power state instead of falling off faster earlier theres going to be a huge noticeable change to a person actually shifting the bike at WOT redline.
I say this because not only does theory support it, I mean you even said it yourself despite thinking its negligible on a TS but also because I own one and watched the layover move from 4500 rpms to more like 5400. Which made the seat of the pant feel of full throttle redline pulls feel significantly better. Now that shift doesnt mean that mathmatically the peak powerband moved that far but if your 500 rpm shift is enough to get the major fall off past redline than thats a huge improvement in seat of the pants feel as a result of horsepower curve.
I know i feel a difference form Stock to when i put an air intake and exhaust on the bike....
Even moreso when upgraded to a stage2
The bike feels more open, the problem comes with the base tunes you get from indian...The ECU automatically readjusts everything after a flash due to the EPA restrictions.
Even moreso when upgraded to a stage2
The bike feels more open, the problem comes with the base tunes you get from indian...The ECU automatically readjusts everything after a flash due to the EPA restrictions.
Just popped on and wow alot of activity.
So to be honest I am doing this tune to hopefully stop my decel popping.
I got the Freedom exhaust because I think it looks good and sound awesome (loud)
I got the Indian High flow round intake because I thought it looked better than stock.
The bike stock has more power than I actually need. I am not out racing but can definitly pass another vehicle when needed or wanted.
Theese bikes are just our "manly barbie dolls" right?
So to be honest I am doing this tune to hopefully stop my decel popping.
I got the Freedom exhaust because I think it looks good and sound awesome (loud)
I got the Indian High flow round intake because I thought it looked better than stock.
The bike stock has more power than I actually need. I am not out racing but can definitly pass another vehicle when needed or wanted.
Theese bikes are just our "manly barbie dolls" right?
I dont really see the difference. 111, 116, 1116, 11116. The cubes dont matter in how an engine responds to modifications, simply proportional.The point of what this thread has devolved into is whether or not stage 1 makes a difference on the Chief, so that is the specific points I have been talking to this whole time. And the dynos that were posted show exact numbers for the TS111 (including where I pulled the 500 RPM shift on the TQ curve from 2,700 to 3,200. HP is actually less and only shifts by 300 RPMs thanks to removing the rev limiter).
Yes, the difference is not in the CIs, but it is in the characteristics of the engine, and to your point, every engine is different and thus intake/exhaust will affect each differently... Rounding back to the main point, intake/exhaust does little to the performance of the thunderstroke engine.I dont really see the difference. 111, 116, 1116, 11116. The cubes dont matter in how an engine responds to modifications, simply proportional.
Right except for exactly where the dyno says it does, got it.Yes, the difference is not in the CIs, but it is in the characteristics of the engine, and to your point, every engine is different and thus intake/exhaust will affect each differently... Rounding back to the main point, intake/exhaust does little to the performance of the thunderstroke engine.
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