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How fast do y'all cut around corners and turns? Once I lean past a certain point, I get super nervous and let off the throttle (broke my neck in a bike wreck years ago). I wanna push it, but don't wanna hit that point where the tires lose grip.
 

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I understand the fear you have, but it's all in your head. Majority of motorcycles can handle more than you would ever care to throw at them. You're not even close to the limit if you aren't scraping pegs. You can even push well past the point of scraping pegs, except on right turns because you'll quickly start scraping exhaust.

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Agreed. I had a significant get-off myself. Took some time for me to start trusting my tires again. Like Jimbobbington said, the bike can handle more than most riders are willing to risk.
 

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I get pretty deep... There is one corner in particular the has a line 75 degree turn. I almost always scrape my peg. I will see if I can find some video of me making the turn.

As long as you avoided the stripes you shouldn't lose grip.

Enjoy!
 

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What tires are you running? Having a set of the grippiest tires available could maybe give you more confidence. As for me going through corners it's kind of comical. I think I'm flying and when I glance at the speedometer I'm about 5 to 10 mph over the speed limit so I'm obviously not challenging the bikes limits but I'm still having fun.
 

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Want that confidence? Find a roundabout and ride it until you scrape pegs. If you don’t have a roundabout handy, find a parking lot and do wide circles and speed up until you’re leaning enough to scrape pegs. Learn the limits of the bike’s lean angle and turns will become second nature.
 

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Want that confidence? Find a roundabout and ride it until you scrape pegs. If you don’t have a roundabout handy, find a parking lot and do wide circles and speed up until you’re leaning enough to scrape pegs. Learn the limits of the bike’s lean angle and turns will become second nature.
This is exactly what I did. Roundabouts are great for this.


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I take some pretty serious corners on this bike doing 80-90 mph I am going to have to replace my exhaust soon as I'm almost scraped clean through my pipes. This bike can handle hard cornering at speed, with that said any type of road hazard such as loose gravel or sand and you dont have the seating position you do on a sport bike to maybe regain control from a small slide at those speeds. So it can absolutely corner at speed just know the risk you are taking.
 

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It can take quite a while to harmonize your own personal limitations to the capabilities of the machine you are riding. It doesn't matter how fast others can do it everyone is different.

If you are at the point where you are "super nervous" you are pushing the limit of your personal envelope! Training, more experience and time will undoubtedly push that limit a little further.
 
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I counter lean more than not. I do lean into it sometimes, but only when the situation calls for it. How do I know when? By feel, need, necessity, etc. I watch YouTube videos of bike wrecks. LOTS of them are from people leaning low when there is just no need. Baffles my mind to see a guy fall on a video for no apparent cause at all other than he was leaning for no apparent need at all. A deep lean at good speed requires a good pull of the throttle to come out of.
 

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How fast do y'all cut around corners and turns? Once I lean past a certain point, I get super nervous and let off the throttle (broke my neck in a bike wreck years ago). I wanna push it, but don't wanna hit that point where the tires lose grip.
We all discuss modifications we make to our bikes to improve performance, comfort and looks but we rarely make an investment in our skills. ChampSchool (Yamaha Champions Riding School) might help you with your confidence and enhance your overall riding experience. They hold classes all over the country. (Your forum profile does not say where you are located.) Pittsburgh International Race Complex near me holds this ChampSchool in August. Their schedule is posted on the website. Check it out.

Home - ChampSchool - Yamaha Champions Riding School
 

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1st and foremost... practice and experience will get you where you want to be, coupled with the techniques explained above.

2nd, to give you some kind of measuring stick by which to answer your question: assuming a dry and debris-free road surface on a warm day, you'll scrape the pegs before you slide the tires.
 

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I don't have the scout to blaze around corners... it's just not a good bike for that, can't think of any cruiser that is. The lean angles suck. You drag hard bits like the exhaust (stock) and pegs before you'll run out of tire. You won't even come close to running out of tire on the scout while dragging peg, it's lean angles won't allow it. You might run into an issue if you start dragging exhaust and lift the back tire though.
 

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How fast do y'all cut around corners and turns? Once I lean past a certain point, I get super nervous and let off the throttle (broke my neck in a bike wreck years ago). I wanna push it, but don't wanna hit that point where the tires lose grip.
There's no correct answer to this. One must ride at one's own pace. Often people get into trouble trying to keep up with someone else and end up exceeding their abilities and/or comfort level.
That said, it's doubtful the tires will lose grip without an extreme situation. You'll be grinding pegs first and should be your signal to back off. Practice is the key.
 

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I scraped pegs on the tail of the dragon, but that was sharp turns at low speeds. I have occasionally scraped pegs at normal speeds. Several things have been mentioned here that are indeed true, namely:

1. The tires maintain grip at pretty steep angles. At 45 degrees, they still have 90% of their grip.
2. Riders have an internal lean barrier that they must overcome.

So, generally, it isn't that the bike has leaned too far and lost tire traction, it is one of the following...

1. The road surface caused a loss of traction (wet, smooth, sand, gravel, etc.)
2. You lean too far (past peg scraping) and some part of the bike contacts the ground, lifting the tire off the ground.
3. The combination of centrifugal forces PLUS braking or throttling overcomes tire traction.

I have seen the YouTubes also and it seems to be more often #1. Even when they are going fast, they often run out of road (end up on the edge) and lose traction. Of course, if they leaned more to stay away from the edge they would probably touch the bike to the road (#2) and have the same result (which they probably know). I see a combination of #1 and #3 at intersections. The combination of giving it throttle and some sand or water.

Personally, I try to keep my lean reasonable. At lower speeds, I lean the bike and keep my body straight, at normal speeds I lean with the bike, and if I feel like I am leaning more than normal, I counter lean. I am not worried about scraping the pegs, I just like to keep a reasonable advantage, given the fact that I'm not in a car.:)

In rain or wet conditions, it is speed, not lean, that will cause a loss of traction. Yes, you must lean more the faster you take a turn, but the tire still has almost all the traction it would have had straight up. The traction is less because of the water, not the lean, and the faster you go around the turn the higher the centrifugal forces, and you eventually overcome traction, not lose traction. Things improve after the first 10 minutes of rain, but you are still looking at a 1/3 loss of traction.
 

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Btw, this is an interesting video that I used to think had to do with understanding counter steering, but have come to believe that it has to do with this discussion.


The common take on this video is that the rider didn't understand counter steering and tried to direct steer away from the truck, causing the bike to lean towards the truck and then he reacts to that by steering towards the truck, and the cycle repeats, till he hits the truck.

However, I don't think this was a counter steering issue at all. I think what is actually happening is that the rider is afraid of the lean he takes on when he does turn away from the truck, causing him to straighten up and continue towards the truck, and so on. A battle between his fear of lean and fear of truck.

I once came upon an entrance ramp going too fast, started to take the curve, felt like I was going too fast, straightened up, now not turning enough, turned more, now leaning too far, etc. I made the ramp ok, but I was wobbly, like this guy.

Once you get steering and balance on a motorcycle, it is pretty damn automatic, like walking. So I don't think this rider had a steering (or counter steering) problem, he had a fear of lean problem and this situation called for quite a bit of lean that his brain just wouldn't accept, even though the only other choice was to hit the truck.

You also see this with riders going off the road in a curve, even though they could have turned/leaned sharper.

I have never actually seen someone not counter steer (steer) correctly, as in wanting to turn left, they turn left and fall over on their side to the right. Unless the person has never ridden a bicycle in their life. I think that becomes wired really well. If they are not steering sharply enough, it isn't that they don't know how to, it is that they don't want to. Their brain just won't let them.
 

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I have never actually seen someone not counter steer (steer) correctly, as in wanting to turn left, they turn left and fall over on their side to the right. Unless the person has never ridden a bicycle in their life. I think that becomes wired really well. If they are not steering sharply enough, it isn't that they don't know how to, it is that they don't want to. Their brain just won't let them.
I've never personally seen it, but I've heard stories. A good buddy of mine had never ridden a motorcycle in his life but his sister and father were both "bikers". I'm sure I regularly put more miles on my bike in a weekend than they would over several years. They're the "bikers" who ride a few days a year and run down to the beach to hit a bar all decked out in their leathers.

He came into work one day and was talking about how hard it is to steer and turn motorcycles.
What are you talking about? It isn't difficult at all. Did you buy a bike or something?
I didn't buy one. My sister is moving and I rode her motorcycle to her new house.
😡 You're alive so I guess you did ok. Dude, riding around here, not knowing what you're doing is incredibly stupid but whatever, what was so difficult about turning though?
Just having to lean that far off the bike to get it to turn was hard. Her bike is so big, even to change lanes I had to lean way off.
You don't "lean off the bike" to turn, you counter steer and it's easy as could be.
No you don't. My sister said to just lean off the bike and it would steer.
🤨 No... Dude. Do me a favor and please don't get on a bike without taking some lessons and having a little knowledge on how a bike works.
So how do YOU steer?
It's all counter steering. You always look in the direction you want to go, you begin every turn away from the direction you want to go which leans the bike and then you balance in the turn. If you need to turn sharper, you have to push the bars away from the turn. If you want to turn right, initially you have to steer left. If you need to turn tighter, push the right side of the bars, turning farther left, which is now relative since the bars should be slightly right but we're getting in the weeds now...
And that's when a multiple hour debate started on how motorcycles work. Me, who has owned and raced Ducati's, has a touring motorcycle and rides around 15,000 a year versus 2 guys from NYC who, combined has around 10 miles total under their belt.

Even after showing them video after video proving them wrong, the rest of the day was them making fun of me and calling me a dumbass for counter steering. Later in the day we were dispatched to setup a landing zone for a medical helicopter for a motorcycle crash. The whole damn way to the LZ they were both going... You want to know how this guy crashed??? Probably tried steering the wrong way... hopefully this guy didn't listen to you and turn the wrong way... etc etc 🤨. Turned out the helicopter was cancelled and the rider wasn't too bad off.

Once I figured out they'll argue about anything just to pass the time, it became funny.
 

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To me it sounds like your scared which leads to one of Keith Code's Survival Reactions or "SRs" called frozen on the bars. Watch this video starting at t9:00 and all the way through the breakdown of the accident.

Bottom line to your question is go as fast as you feel comfortable going. Keith states to ride at 75% of your potential. So if you feel you're going to fast you are; even if the bike and other riders can go faster.

I recommend watching the entire video and getting the book. Then practice at your pace. If you're able to take an Advance Rider course as well. It can be hard to recognize your own faults. The instructor is trained to watch for what you're doing wrong and give you the tools you need to fix it.


Btw, this is an interesting video that I used to think had to do with understanding counter steering, but have come to believe that it has to do with this discussion.


The common take on this video is that the rider didn't understand counter steering and tried to direct steer away from the truck, causing the bike to lean towards the truck and then he reacts to that by steering towards the truck, and the cycle repeats, till he hits the truck.

However, I don't think this was a counter steering issue at all. I think what is actually happening is that the rider is afraid of the lean he takes on when he does turn away from the truck, causing him to straighten up and continue towards the truck, and so on. A battle between his fear of lean and fear of truck.

I once came upon an entrance ramp going too fast, started to take the curve, felt like I was going too fast, straightened up, now not turning enough, turned more, now leaning too far, etc. I made the ramp ok, but I was wobbly, like this guy.

Once you get steering and balance on a motorcycle, it is pretty damn automatic, like walking. So I don't think this rider had a steering (or counter steering) problem, he had a fear of lean problem and this situation called for quite a bit of lean that his brain just wouldn't accept, even though the only other choice was to hit the truck.

You also see this with riders going off the road in a curve, even though they could have turned/leaned sharper.

I have never actually seen someone not counter steer (steer) correctly, as in wanting to turn left, they turn left and fall over on their side to the right. Unless the person has never ridden a bicycle in their life. I think that becomes wired really well. If they are not steering sharply enough, it isn't that they don't know how to, it is that they don't want to. Their brain just won't let them.
I've seen that video before. IMO the rider was going a little bit above his ability trying to keep up with the guy in front of him. As soon as he round the corner and saw the truck he got scared, froze on the bars, and target fixated on the truck. The only result after you've target fixated is to crash into what you're fixated on unless you recognize it and have enough time to look where you want to go. In the video you see the guy was on a line near the middle of the corner but he would've made it had he simply maintained. But as soo as he saw the truck his handle bars started going everywhere due to panic and he went straight to what he was trying to avoid.

I knew about this when I first started riding. I was practicing in a church parking lot and was getting a little close to a handicap ramp railing. The more I tried to avoid it, the more I looked at it and the closer I got even though I was trying to steer away. I recognized what I was doing and looked where I wanted to go and cleared it no problem.
 

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Watch the Keith Code videos ... do a track weekend ... make sure you have the right tires ... then ride that @#$%&' like you stole it. If you wanted to putt around while dressed like a pirate on Saturdays you'd have bought a Springfield.

Life is short. Ride like you mean it.
 
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