[tvrolet]

This is a long-standing problem that I'd learned to live with inasmuch as I didn't do anything about it! But I'm in Scotland and we're still on a lockdown and I've done everything I can possibly do in the garage so started looking at other bike-related stuff, so for the first time really I opened the ecu map for a poke about.

Here's the problem - I have a 2014 Chief Vintage with a 116 big bore kit; I've had it since new. The 116 kit wasn't a supported setup in the UK (I bought the parts in the US) so Polaris wouldn't give out a map. I already had a PowerVision fitted as it had Stage 2 cams before that, so had it remapped. It's been running not too badly, but I rode down to Italy last summer and met heat that we just don't get in Scotland (90+ degrees F). If the motor was idling stationary for a few minutes then it would pink/knock something awful trying to pull away unless I used just a hint of throttle. The knock/pinking was so bad I could hardly get over 50mph with the throttle only just open until the motor started to get some cooling off the airflow. So whatever 'knock control' was doing, it wasn't controlling the knock!

Back in our chillier climes it's been fine. but with nothing else to do I opened up the map out of curiosity and I'm seeing a Knock control section. Now there are 2 problems here - first I'm an absolute newbie here with the map and have only just worked out how to navigate it and do comparisons and I certainly don't know what most of the stuff means, and second we don't have the heat here to try it out! But I do plan to ride down to the Spain or the South of France once we can ride again so if there's any change I could make now in advance that would be useful.

But after that - maybe I'm now being paranoid - I think I'm feeling (or was feeling...last time I rode!) a very slight knock sometimes at about 2800rpm moving from about 1/4 throttle to 1/2 throttle, and that's in our cooler weather.

Doing a comparison it appears the current map in this area is the same as was standard (for a 2014 111) - no changes to Knock control were made with the 116. Happy to post up pics of various sections of the map if anyone's got any ideas and wants to see something.

Probably not related, but I've always had an issue that if I'm decelerating on a closed throttle and then blip the throttle for a down-change it occasionally spits back through the filter, doesn't lift the revs and sometimes actually dies. Is there another part of the map that controls this, and what might I experiment with? Now this I can test here...but once we're riding again.

Thanks

 

[Shardy]

Have you recorded logs? You'll likely find that there's some knock control action when the engine is cooler as well. It sounds like you need some more appropriate ignition maps.
This would probably help the throttle blip sputtering also. Again, looking at logs will help you narrow down the problem. When you're decelerating at zero throttle and then open it up the ecm references a different map. I'd hazard a guess that the timing increases by a substantial amount at that time.

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[tvrolet]

Thanks for the quick feedback. I'm assuming this means connecting the PowerVision unit thingy to the bike, and also to a laptop and then going for a ride? Is there a dummies guide to this? Does it record 'everything' or do I have to set something up to record specific things? I did have a look at some of the other threads on this but the starting point was a bit higher than my level of zero-knowledge.

 

[cmoalem]

You are running your 116 BBK off a 111 stage2 map?
(did you get a dealer stage2 flash and then the pvcx tune, or is it a pure pvcx tune based on stock/stage1?)

All kinds of "issues" come to my mind!

Stage2 cams have completely different lobes/valve timings than Stage3 cams.

And yes your knock control windows will be off. (And your timing and your fuelling).

I would suggest you get professional help from @CraigB1960 !
Have your PV_info.txt and your stk file at hand.
It boils down that you need a stage3 stk file somehow shoved onto your ECU (and a PVCX re-pairing)... and then tuning from there. Unfortunately we are not yet seeing all tables which need tweaking for Indian Stage3 cams. (That's why a stage3 stk is highly recommended). I would say.




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[CraigB1960]

Thanks for the quick feedback. I'm assuming this means connecting the PowerVision unit thingy to the bike, and also to a laptop and then going for a ride? Is there a dummies guide to this? Does it record 'everything' or do I have to set something up to record specific things? I did have a look at some of the other threads on this but the starting point was a bit higher than my level of zero-knowledge.

No need to connect to the laptop, the PV3/PVCX has memory that the logs record to. It will record all data channels that you can then look at in the Data Center of Power Core software. You will need to setup the channels in Data Center to view the data. That is on my blog referenced below.

You can look at My Indian Roadmaster Blog for information.

 

[tvrolet]

Hi cmoalam - it's not as bad as that! I actually had DynoJet in the UK remap the bike after the 116 kit went on, but what they had to start with was the 111 map with stage 2 cams, so the fuelling is OK (I think!) and the bike basically runs fine apart from when I noticed the major knock in hot weather and maybe a knock at 2800 on small throttle. But all they really did in the time they had was alter the fulling - there's no changes to ignition or anything else apart from a very small ignition advance top-end at full load. So that means ignition and knock is basically as per the 111 but fuelling is 'good' on the bike. There is no way I can get an 'official' 116 map from Polaris (at least at the time I fitted the 116) as the kit wasn't sold/authorised in the UK. I did get a 116 map from DynoJet in the US, but that ran like a bag of spanners on my bike.

Hi CraigB1960 - thanks for that, I'll have a look.

 

[cmoalem]

Hi cmoalam - it's not as bad as that! I actually had DynoJet in the UK remap the bike after the 116 kit went on, but what they had to start with was the 111 map with stage 2 cams, so the fuelling is OK (I think!) and the bike basically runs fine apart from when I noticed the major knock in hot weather and maybe a knock at 2800 on small throttle. But all they really did in the time they had was alter the fulling - there's no changes to ignition or anything else apart from a very small ignition advance top-end at full load. So that means ignition and knock is basically as per the 111 but fuelling is 'good' on the bike. There is no way I can get an 'official' 116 map from Polaris (at least at the time I fitted the 116) as the kit wasn't sold/authorised in the UK. I did get a 116 map from DynoJet in the US, but that ran like a bag of spanners on my bike.

Hi CraigB1960 - thanks for that, I'll have a look.

Well ... going from a stage I tune with ok fueling is "safer" than from a stage2 tune .

(I understand you are in dialogue with Craig: listen to him!)

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