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<p class='photo_caption'>Motorcycles at a Harley-Davidson dealership in Marina del Rey, Calif. on July 24
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It&rsquo;s only natural that a motorcycle brand idled for almost 60 years might take a little while to get up to speed. But early customers don&rsquo;t appear to be clamoring for the three new Indians, a motorcycle brand born in 1922, shut down in 1954 and resurrected in Augustby <span class='ticker_wrap'><span><span>Polaris Industries</span></span> (<a class='ticker' href='http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=PII' data-symbol='PII'>PII</a>)</span>.
Polaris, a Minnesota company known for its snowmobiles and all-terrain vehicles, reported a six percent slide in motorcycle sales for the three months ended Sept. 30, which includes more than month in which the new Indian models had arrived at dealerships. Marketing probably wasn&rsquo;t the problem, as Polaris had scattered tchotchkes and peppered potential customers with Indian ads for months before its big reveal. And when the unveiling came, the bikes looked pretty smart and won some throaty praise from critics.
What sent Indian skidding a bit was <span class='ticker_wrap'><span><span>Harley-Davidson</span></span> (<a class='ticker' href='http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=HOG' data-symbol='HOG'>HOG</a>)</span>, which craftily lined up its biggest product launch in more than a century just days after the Polaris announcement in motorcycle-mad Sturgis, S.D. This morning, meanwhile, Harley said its new Project Rushmore line fueled a 15 percent increase in the number of bikes sold in the recent quarter.
<div class='related_item tracked' data-label='Position: 0' data-action-type='Feature Template' data-actions='click' data-category='Inline Related Links'><span class='related_item-label'>STORY: </span>Polaris Tries to Rev Up Indian Motorcycle's Run at Harley</div>
Almost 71,000 Harleys rolled out of dealerships in the period, and the company&rsquo;s share of the U.S. heavy bike market revved up slightly to 56.5 percent. &ldquo;The results at retail speak for themselves,&rdquo; Harley CEO Keith Wandell said on a conference call this morning.
This is not what Polaris was hoping would come from its Indian marketing mantra: &ldquo;Choice is here.&rdquo; Bikers definitely have more options this fall, but they appear to be choosing the new Harleys over the Indians or Polaris&rsquo;s other motorcycle brand, the 15-year-old Victory line. Winning customers who never thought to buy a motorcycle might be a lot easier than convincing Harley fans to switch hogs.
What&rsquo;s more, Harley gets a bit of a turbo boost from the accessories market. Some five percent of its total revenue comes from selling Harley gear, a type of brand equity that Indian might have trouble tracking down after being more or less mothballed since 1954. Polaris is giving the souvenir market a shot, but it doesn&rsquo;t yet have Indian-themed Christmas ornaments($18), piggy banks ($45), or napkin rings($35).
<div class='related_item tracked' data-label='Position: 1' data-action-type='Feature Template' data-actions='click' data-category='Inline Related Links'><span class='related_item-label'>VIDEO: </span>High-Tech Harleys End 110 Years of Design Interia</div>
What it does have, however, is some fuel to burn. Thanks to solid financial engineering, Polaris is pretty balanced and well-tuned. Sales of off-road vehicles&mdash;almost three-quarters of its business&mdash;increased by 23 percent in the recent quarter. Its snowmobiles were seeing similar momentum thanks to demand in Russia and Scandinavian countries. All told, the company posted a 24 percent increase in profit and beat expectations despite its sputtering motorcycles.
And executives still expect the new bikes to get momentum. &ldquo;I think of this as the calm before the storm as the Indian business is poised for rapid growth,&rdquo; Polaris CEO Scott Wine said on a conference call this morning. &ldquo;It occurred to me that bringing this business back to life is quite similar to the birth of a child: tremendous excitement and anticipation, followed by great joy and adulation and then years of really, really hard work.&rdquo;
That&rsquo;s probably an apt metaphor&mdash;a parade of Harleys would make any baby cry.
<div class='related_item tracked' data-label='Position: 2' data-action-type='Feature Template' data-actions='click' data-category='Inline Related Links'><span class='related_item-label'>VIDEO: </span>Polaris CEO on Indian Motorcycles</div>
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<div class='author_short_bios'>Stock is an associate editor for Businessweek.com.</div>
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<div class='share_buttons' data-id='1bad2f76-3b2b-11e3-9b7d-d8d38560fdc0' data-type='story' data-headline='Revved Up Harleys Drown Out Polaris's Revived Indians' data-host='http://analytics.bloomberg.com/images/analytics-bw/dot1.gif' data-ping-uri='/,/companies-and-industries,/companies-and-industries/transportation,/companies-and-industries/gadgets-and-accessories,/companies-and-industries/manufacturing,/companies-and-industries/design,/companies-and-industries/autos,/authors/52926-kyle-stock' data-pub-date='2013-10-22 12:52:31 -0400' data-summary='' data-uri='http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-22/revved-up-harleys-drown-out-polariss-revived-indians'> </div>
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S

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Discussion Starter #2
' a motorcycle brand born in 1922 '

As soon as I read this line the rest didn't matter, if the reporter can't even do enough research to print the proper year the Indian brand was born the rest of the artical carries no weight period.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Inaccurate, typical HD rant. Sounds like the engineers of a very large unsinkable ship, the denial continues...
 
M

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Discussion Starter #4
OH man tell this to the several HD riders I met at the Indian demo day, 7 out of the 10 I met were going for the Indian but keeping there HD's The other 3 were strongly thinking about making the jump. As I was leaving a crew of HD riders were coming into the demo day so who really knows.
What ever you ride just enjoy riding, some folks only dream of riding or even having the funds to get a motorcycle. In today's economy its a hard sell.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Not sure how long the HD push will continue. Just during the1.5 hours I was at the dealership there were 4 hog riders showing up to 'sniff' the new Indian. Btw, I have two guys in my neighborhood selling their hogs since they are switching to Indian.
 
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1169 said:
' a motorcycle brand born in 1922 '

As soon as I read this line the rest didn't matter, if the reporter can't even do enough research to print the proper year the Indian brand was born the rest of the artical carries no weight period.

You're absolutely right. I didn't read any further.
 
Z

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Discussion Starter #7
Like I said in another thread, WHO CARES. For those of us who have already bought Inidans (YOU and are feeding these forums now with info on INDIAN bike performance) or who are trying and hoping to buy one for late spring next year (ME) an Indian, the only thing that matters is the Indians runs well like the Victory bikes have done and Customer support and marketing and corporate treat us well.

If you want a Harley, then the CHOICE is there for you also!

I really wish Corporate for both Victory and Indian would give up tugging on 'Superman's Cape' and put ALL their effort into Indian and Victory and let they're products to the talking.

I'm more interested in Indian. I have a nice group of folks at an HD dealership right in the next town that I did business with decades ago, and I know if I wanted an HD, they'd take care of me.


But I want an Indian, because it's different. And I've got a great dealer, Wagner in Worcester not too far away from me and it now Mom's, so we have TWO dealers in Mass now and I'm sure there will be a few more coming up.


Neither of these brands I talked about will ever be close to being as big as HD, and that is exactly why I've owned Victory and now looking for Indian.
 
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The author of that story must have stock in HOG or something. He obviously sucks at getting facts correct... HD appears to be at least a little scared of Indian. Do not ride recalls are pretty bad IMO, and prove to me that they were rushing 'Rushmore' out the door...
 
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2108 said:
I really wish Corporate for both Victory and Indian would give up tugging on 'Superman's Cape' and put ALL their effort into Indian and Victory and let they're products to the talking.
Great response.

The video link provided was well worth watching.

 
M

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Discussion Starter #10
no rider would post something like this. this is some corporate geek trying to score some browny points with somebody, ' EPIC FAIL ' is the score i give him
,,, sad display buddy
! now back to our local programing .
 
R

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Discussion Starter #11
I got the feeling the writer works for HD, It seems to me the 1922 reference had to be intentional, it is no secret that Indian was started in 1901. All you have to do is ask any Indian dealer and they will tell you 80% of the people who show up for test rides, ride in on a Harley. Polaris( Victory/ Indian} should be flattered that morons like this writer are resorting to false information to make HD look better. It's going to be fun to see what happens in the future.

Kevin





The author of that story must have stock in HOG or something. He obviously sucks at getting facts correct... HD appears to be at least a little scared of Indian. Do not ride recalls are pretty bad IMO, and prove to me that they were rushing 'Rushmore' out the door...


[/quote]
 
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Discussion Starter #12
12463 said:
I got the feeling the writer works for HD, It seems to me the 1922 reference had to be intentional, it is no secret that Indian was started in 1901. All you have to do is ask any Indian dealer and they will tell you 80% of the people who show up for test rides, ride in on a Harley. Polaris( Victory/ Indian} should be flattered that morons like this writer are resorting to false information to make HD look better. It's going to be fun to see what happens in the future.

Kevin





The author of that story must have stock in HOG or something. He obviously sucks at getting facts correct... HD appears to be at least a little scared of Indian. Do not ride recalls are pretty bad IMO, and prove to me that they were rushing 'Rushmore' out the door...
[/quote]



Hd shouldn't be too proud.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/10/17/harley-davidson-recalls-some-14-motorcycles/
 
I

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Discussion Starter #13
Authored by Taboolady Taboola. Yeah I heard of her, didn't she win a Pulitzer and a Nobel prize for objectivity in journalism?

Humans as a species are easily manipulated, willingly, by bias. Politics, religion, motorcycles, regional alliances...a lot of people get so wrapped up in it they actually believe people are inherently better, or better off because of the state they live in, the bike they ride, the church they go to, or the political party they support. Some become so obsessed with it they actually exaggerate negatives and ignore positives associated with the other political party, religion, state. or brand.

And then some people get a job in media of one form or another. Reading Ms. Taboola's 'reporting' reminds me of watching a political commentator on FOX or MSNBC. It's clear that the only purpose of the 'reporting' is to tell some people what they want to hear. Thus fulfilling another quirky human trait. While some of us get so wrapped up into being better than our neighbor many of the same people need constant reminding and reassurances that they are better and good and the other guy sucks and is bad. It looks like Ms. Taboola's target audience falls into this category. If someone really is morally righteous, comfortable with where they live and who they vote for, and really is happy with their choice of motorcycle...then they don't need to be reminded of it constantly.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
The reporter needs to get his fact straight, as we all know there were no Indians in dealerships for sale in the third Quarter (July-September) there might have been a few pre-orders showing up at the last end of September, but I think they never really started to ship till October (which would be the 4th Quarter) and of course any bikes that were pre sold would not be invoiced till delivery,which means they will show up in the 4th Quarter. I would expect the sales drop might be attributed to potential Vic buyers that were holding off to see what the new Indian looked like..... It will be interesting to see what Polaris's 4th quarter looks like, but I think the tale will really be told 2nd quarter next year when sales take off. If you have any doubt about Polaris as a Viable manufacturer have a look at thier stock, closed at $133.01 on Friday, and has climbed from about $110 when the Indian was unveiled to $133 now, a 21% gain in three months. Polaris has had consistant growth from when they started trading to present, and the dividands paid has constantly grown since they started paying dividends. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 12 months, Wish I had a piece of Polaris 6 months ago.....


http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=PII&amp;t=5y
 
J

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Discussion Starter #15
To me. There is nothing special about a harley. They all look somewhat alike. I really can't say when I see one. Oh thats a softtail or limited. You can really tell the differance between the Indians. Beautiful bikes.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
18880 me. There is nothing special about a harley. They all look somewhat alike. I really can't say when I see one. Oh thats a softtail or limited. You can really tell the differance between the Indians. Beautiful bikes. [/quote said:
I agree, but they sell it as an individualistic bike. Yeah right, at 160,000 per year. And the 2014 already have issues.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
18880 said:
To me. There is nothing special about a harley. They all look somewhat alike. I really can't say when I see one. Oh thats a softtail or limited. You can really tell the differance between the Indians. Beautiful bikes.
I can tell the difference in the HD models.
Yes they all look somewhat alike just like the Vics do.

A Softail and a Dyna have different suspension, a limited is only a designation for a certian year run.

A little research and you would be amazed at what you can learn.
 
R

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Discussion Starter #18
I am looking at getting a Vintage, sold my last Harley spec con chopper in 06. Was looking at a Heritage but saw the new Indians are out and am thinking of going that way. It's a lot of bike for the money. They nailed the design just 100%. It has the look and the sound. Harlay should actually be nervous. Indian is going to take chunk out of their sales. A chunk that Victory could not take. There also the other aspects, like the drive belt. Its a PIA to take a belt off a softail. And its not cheap to take to the shop. I dont see any reason if would be more than removing the small chrome cover on the right side and what ever body panels to get to the belt. There is no primary chain to replace. Ita all gear drive.

The only things I see as questionable are the timing chain tensioner vs a gear drive. Why the Harleys go out I dont know as you dont really hear of them going out in cars and its the same technology. I am sure the engineers have good reasons for going the way they did. The other thing I wonder about is why the shared oil system and not separate engine and tranny fluids. Again I am sure the engineers have their reasons for other than just keeping things symple.

Again I really think Harley has some competition this time. Competition is great for us consumers. The Indians do not really compare to a Heritage Softail as for only a little more you have mor engine, built in oil cooler etc. Stuff you find on a CVO for a lot more money. Really has me leaning toward the Indian.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
19817 said:
I am looking at getting a Vintage, sold my last Harley spec con chopper in 06. Was looking at a Heritage but saw the new Indians are out and am thinking of going that way. It's a lot of bike for the money. They nailed the design just 100%. It has the look and the sound. Harlay should actually be nervous. Indian is going to take chunk out of their sales. A chunk that Victory could not take. There also the other aspects, like the drive belt. Its a PIA to take a belt off a softail. And its not cheap to take to the shop. I dont see any reason if would be more than removing the small chrome cover on the right side and what ever body panels to get to the belt. There is no primary chain to replace. Ita all gear drive.

The only things I see as questionable are the timing chain tensioner vs a gear drive. Why the Harleys go out I dont know as you dont really hear of them going out in cars and its the same technology. I am sure the engineers have good reasons for going the way they did. The other thing I wonder about is why the shared oil system and not separate engine and tranny fluids. Again I am sure the engineers have their reasons for other than just keeping things symple.

Again I really think Harley has some competition this time. Competition is great for us consumers. The Indians do not really compare to a Heritage Softail as for only a little more you have mor engine, built in oil cooler etc. Stuff you find on a CVO for a lot more money. Really has me leaning toward the Indian.
The HD Twin Cam has two really small ' shoe's ' that wear out rather fast so if you don't do the scheduled inspections you could have a failure and that's not cheap. New Harley's have a rather large ' run out ' spec on the crankshaft so you can't switch to gear driven cams without trouble from the run out.
The new Indians have a cam chain also, it drives the intake cam which then drives the exhaust cams through gears on the cams.
The Indian has one large tensioner ' shoe ' and the cam chest on the Indian is solid.
As far as one shared oil other motorcycle manufacture's have been doing this forever with no issues at all.

At the end of the day buy what moves you, makes you feel good, Vic, HD or the new Indian.
I went from HD to Victory to an Indian and i'm loving every mile I put on.
 
K

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Discussion Starter #20
12463 said:
I got the feeling the writer works for HD, It seems to me the 1922 reference had to be intentional, it is no secret that Indian was started in 1901. All you have to do is ask any Indian dealer and they will tell you 80% of the people who show up for test rides, ride in on a Harley. Polaris( Victory/ Indian} should be flattered that morons like this writer are resorting to false information to make HD look better. It's going to be fun to see what happens in the future.

Kevin
To correct the author 1922 is the year that Indian introduced the Chief, which historically speaking is Indian's most popular model. I'm no historian but I did read it here: http://www.polaris.com/en-us/company/news-item.aspx?articleID=136
 
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