The irony here is that, in my mind, Old School, when applied to bikes, are typically WWII and older, with a residual up to 1950. For Indian The Original IMC bikes are "Old School". Unfortunately, the new ideas that came out
in the late 40s early 50s with regard to the Parallel Twin were simply Indian looking over the horizon. Indian saw what was coming but unfortunately, it's customer base apparently simply wasn't ready.
Oh, America was ready, though the new parallel twins were a departure for Indian, but when the incompletely-developed and tested twins started grenading their engines that kind of put a damper on things. I doubt Polaris will make that mistake.
As for the dweeb who penned the article that kicked this thread off, he's pretty full of himself. Its easy to play the identity politics game and make broad, disparaging generalizations about folks you don't know and can't be bothered to get to know, easy to stuff people in boxes. In 42 years of riding, and being in the motorcycle business for 15 years, one of the things I've enjoyed the most are the interesting and individualistic people you meet in the motorcycling community. I don't know of any group of people I like better.
--- Randall
You're correct, America was ready, but not necessarily the Indian crowd. I think Ralph Rogers era Indian's mistake was basically dumping what worked while dumping a new product on the market that, as you put it, grenaded itself. And yes,
that would dampin' things. Another problem was the mil surplus of bikes, then the British pound thing that made the British bikes (among other products) so cheap. Pretty hard to argue against some good products when they cost less. We need not look too far in China's direction.
Something I noticed, though, is one difference between Indian and Harley Davidson is that the HD was managed by the founders and second and third gens. I think that helped HD along. In Indian's case, The founders left hardly 15 years
after they started the company. If my recollection of the facts, are correct, Indian was the largest motorcycle manufacturer in the world 100 years ago. Then, Hendee and Hedström left the company. Then there was Charles Franklin, the
father of the Chief and Scout. Hendee was the Bicycle Racer/businessman, Hedström was the machinist/inventor, Franklin was the Racer/Designer.
I think those three men embodied what Indian was originally all about and are the force behind the reason Indian came to become the world's largest manufacturer and how the Scout and Chief became the legends they became.
A man can have all the money in the world, but if he doesn't have the passion, the skill, the vision and the competitive drive, marketing intuition, and overall sound business sense he isn't going to succeed in his venture. I think
that that may have been the case for Ralph Rogers. He had the money, he had passion, he had vision but he obviously lacked something.
The 149 Arrow, the 249 Super Scout and the 250 Warrior were good ideas that didn't get the design shake-down they obviously needed. At the same time, the proven Scout had been dropped and according to various sources,
the Chief wouldn't even be made in 1949 (some source, I forget where, said only 15 were made). When loyal Indian fans of the Scout and Chief saw their beloved models dropped and toyed with like that. I don't think they were
too happy about that. At the same time, those that bought the replacement models had their negative experience. All the while, the British were coming. (it's from this background knowledge I spoke of "Americans weren't quite ready".)
Prior to Rogers' stewardship, there was the 841 development for the Army. Due to the GP (Jeep), that bike was canceled, so it has been said. Harley's competing model was also dropped. But
the army decided to just continue to purchase the WLAs for their inventory and it seems they basically order some 30,000(?) Indians (741s, militarized Scouts, I think).
Before the 741 and 841 there was the Super Scout, which proved to be popular but only after another let down came when, in response to the Great Depression and economic reasons, the 101 Scout was replaced by a hybrid
heavier Chief frame Scout engine arrangement which was a letdown to the fans of the now legendary 101 Scout. That was in 31, I believe. Franklin would die in '32. Turns out Franklin also assisted Arthur O. Lemon in the
development of the ACE four which was the brainchild of William Henderson, founder of THAT Henderson motorcycle, who had left Excelsior-Henderson following differences of opinion with Excelsior. Henderson had been hit by a car and never regained consciousness. Nevertheless, the ACE four would go on to become the property of Indian Motorcycle, and no doubt, in part, because Franklin was instrumental in the bike's development and Franklin may have had influential
swaying power with the board of directors when ACE came up for grabs.
All that to say this:
With the "differences of opinions" between founders and corp heads, something's gonna give. It had to have been pretty awful for the founders. And for the corporate heads? Karma is a bear.
In a way, it becomes clear that when the money men in suits in fine offices and conference rooms start meddling with the actual design team's efforts who have that passion, and know what what they are doing,
things can, sometimes, start to go bad. Rogers may have been such a one and Indian's cookies crumbled before his eyes.
Polaris looks like a pretty top shelf company and I think it has to do with businessmen who actually have a passion for their products and respects the work of their capable engineers and marketing staff.
Everyone has a weakness. Let's hope Polaris doesn't reveal theirs. But if they do, let's hope they can cleanup their mess on the pronto.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to HD when Willlie G is gone.
