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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Cool, I was a little surprised by some of the results though. For example Harley winning in the engine department while Indian took the appearance and desirability categories? While I'm not saying the writers were wrong, it sure does buck the commonly accepted reputations Indian and HD have.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
'While the Chieftain never felt underpowered, it surprisingly felt a little short on oomph when ridden in conjunction with the Street Glide'
Looking at the graph I find that hard to believe.

'If you think that the Thunder Stroke’s eight cubic inch displacement advantage would translate into more horsepower, you’d be wrong.'

Correct... but... The TS-111 is about torque and the blue area shows the advantage of the TS-111 over the TC-103. Anywhere below 4200 rpm, the Indian engine is substantially stronger (especially below 2300). From 4200-4700 the two engines are equal. Only from 4700 up does the HD have any advantage.

This is exactly the kind of power the engineers were shooting for. People on this very forum say they don't rev their engines over 4000 in normal riding. This engine was developed for those cruiser riders.

 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
12460 said:
Cool, I was a little surprised by some of the results though. For example Harley winning in the engine department while Indian took the appearance and desirability categories? While I'm not saying the writers were wrong, it sure does buck the commonly accepted reputations Indian and HD have.
I wasn't surprised at all.

Every staff motorcycle reviewer from a company that benefits from HDs marketing will absolutely favor HD in any way they can. They will use subjective terms, and whenever possible they will compare a single number to their advantage instead of taking that number in context.

Polaris should take the same two bikes to the track and just quarter mile them, then switch riders and do it again.

Keeping in mind how many on here believe Government regulations are sent from the Devil, I have always been convinced that product comparisons should be required to be done by independent reviewers.

Ever since I was a kid and heard that, '4 out of 5 dentists surveyed prefer XXXX' I have thought, what a load of nonsense.

When anyone but HD wins a side by side publicly, even when the bias pretends it was a close race, it should be considered a SlamDunk Victory.

JM50C
Kg
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
4028 said:
I wasn't surprised at all.
Every staff motorcycle reviewer from a company that benefits from HDs marketing will absolutely favor HD in any way they can. They will use subjective terms, and whenever possible they will compare a single number to their advantage instead of taking that number in context.
Polaris should take the same two bikes to the track and just quarter mile them, then switch riders and do it again.
Keeping in mind how many on here believe Government regulations are sent from the Devil, I have always been convinced that product comparisons should be required to be done by independent reviewers.
Ever since I was a kid and heard that, '4 out of 5 dentists surveyed prefer XXXX' I have thought, what a load of nonsense.
When anyone buy HD wins a side by side publicly, even when the bias pretends it was a close race, it should be considered a SlamDunk Victory.
JM50C
Kg
Exactly, my bet is the Indian will kill the HD. The power delivery on the Indians was excellent when I rode them other than the fact they flat fall on their face after 4500 rpm. I was somewhat surprised Polaris didn't do a bit better on this with a clean sheet new engine even though it's typical of a 2 valve pushrod design.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
In the Cycle World comparison the HD beat the Indian in the 1/4 mile. The HD is lighter and makes more HP... it will be quicker in a drag race...

However... in top gear roll-ons the Indian was 1.6 to 1.9 seconds quicker than the HD. This is EXACTLY what the designers were trying to do. Bottom end grunt and passing authority. The dyno comparison bears this out. 'USE THE TORQUE, LUKE!'
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just nice to see some positive reviews of the Polaris product. Doubt you will convert many of the HD faithful, and they do make a fine bike. Just nice that there are more options available to ride American.

I had the opportunity to demo all three new Indian models and enjoyed the experience. There was nothing about any of them that would make we trade my Vision, but if the opportunity ever presented itself for a second bike a red Chief would be my choice over any HD.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's been a few years now since I've rode a Harley and that was a 96' so this is just theory but if the Harley is lighter or has different gear ratios the reviewer comments could be accurate. What will (maybe) be entertaining to see from this is if the same cheerleaders who for years now when compared to Victory have said, 'it's a cruiser, it's not about horsepower. If you don't ride a Harley you just won't inderstand.' I wonder if now compared to Indian they'll start bragging about Harley being more powerful?
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I was surprised by a lot of the comparisons too..........like the Chieftan grounding before the Harley, or the Harley brakes being better (??). Just looking at the 2 of them though, the Chieftain looked stunning........and I still can't understand why the Street Glide is finished in primer?
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
4902 said:
What will (maybe) be entertaining to see from this is if the same cheerleaders who for years now when compared to Victory have said, 'it's a cruiser, it's not about horsepower. If you don't ride a Harley you just won't inderstand.' I wonder if now compared to Indian they'll start bragging about Harley being more powerful?
Yes... the grand justifications...
When the HD is the least powerful 'It's not about performance, it never has been'. I also wonder if that will change now...

Of course, before 2014, the HDs were not as potent. Also, even though the new ones are better performing, they still have the same inherent shortcomings to the engine design. Will the additional power make those issues more apparent? Only time will tell...

This is only the first production year for Indian. They are already going head to head with HD and getting favorable comparisons written.

People who are HD loyal should be grateful... if Polaris wasn't such a strong competitor, the HDs wouldn't be as good as they are.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
692 said:
In the Cycle World comparison the HD beat the Indian in the 1/4 mile. The HD is lighter and makes more HP... it will be quicker in a drag race...

However... in top gear roll-ons the Indian was 1.6 to 1.9 seconds quicker than the HD. This is EXACTLY what the designers were trying to do. Bottom end grunt and passing authority. The dyno comparison bears this out. 'USE THE TORQUE, LUKE!'
Sorry, I don't drag race ( even as a patron). I would have thought a real 1/4 mile test would handicap the HD with weights.

Unfortunately, I spent more time at Horse tracks than drag strips. Too much loud noise for too long makes me want to choke somebody, so no Nascar or drag races for me. Can't watch fireworks from a large pushy crowd either.

I stand corrected.

Kg
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This review is pretty typical of most of the bike mags. I ve ridden plenty of current HDs. They have no power when compared to an Indian or a Vic. HD may have lower gearing, but that is not more power. Roll on comparison is a complete joke. Any stock Vic or Indian will quickly pull away from a stock HD on 60-80 or 80-100 MPH roll ons. HDs sure are pretty though.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well all I can say is having ridden both the HD and the Indian these guys must have taken advantage of Californias new marijuana laws.

* Power, higher reving HD but Indian out performs on both HP and Torque at lower rpm which is much better for average riding.
* MPG, my Chieftain consitantly gets 40 MPH and thats with the stage 1 upgrade.
As a note for the engine they were testing was a 50 state model not 49 state.
* Brakes, far better on the HD, are you joking?
* Lean angle better on the HD, didn't hear anything scraping on the Indian like you did on the Harley in the video.
* Engine smoothness, crap I had to take my hands off the bars when at a light with the Harley, my teeth would rattle with the vibration.

The comment about HD not being worried about the new Indian, Project Rushmore was in fact delayed in order to add more upgrades that were previously accessories on the Harley to compete with what Indian was offering as standard. There was also no mention of the much higher level of finish and chrome on the Indian when they compared price.

They gave the Harley the benifit of the doubt in every catagory they could to keep the advertising revenue stream coming in and the Indian still managed to top the Harley. Either way for the comparison to be so close says a lot for Indian producing a complete new bike in 27 months.

Toke up Dudes!
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Oh and one other small thing they forgot to comment on, the leg frying heat coming off the Harley even with the plastic heat deflectors Harley had to add.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
19853 said:
e.

They gave the Harley the benifit of the doubt in every catagory they could to keep the advertising revenue stream coming in and the Indian still managed to top the Harley. Either way for the comparison to be so close says a lot for Indian producing a complete new bike in 27 months.

Toke up Dudes!
It's not to keep the advertisers pleased it's to keep the readers pleased. Rip on a guys bike and he won't subscribe to your mag. Then no subscribers = no advertising. Buy one of these mags and count the ads, Harley will account for about 2-3% of the ad space sold, if that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I find it interesting that they gave the win to the Chieftan yet we yell bias. Two guys that don't own one. They try to be objective, tore up the HD on the rear suspension and ergos, gave the win to Indian and you are not happy.

The Street Glide is more comfortable at higher RPMs. Different motor with less displacement. At higher RPMs it makes more horsepower. Matt finish vs. shinny and bling is a personal thing. He even didn't like the GPS much but accepted a GPS is better than none. How does the GPS on the Indian work?

They should have just given the win to HD, as nothing will make you folks happy anyhow. Accept the win, its a good bike.

And they don't usually give hands down wins to brands. Not because of advertisers. Because of readers! Hurt feelings mean lost customers. They try to say something good about every bike. 1- because every bike has something good about it and 2- not to hurt the feelings of customers who can act like children when they don't agree.

I thoutht they did a fine job on it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I want to see this comparison with the Cross Country thrown in the mix. And I think most of the complaints in this thread are due to the fact that we know that the Indian is a better bike in every conceivable catagory, and to give the nod to HD anywhere is an insult to intelligence. And to rationalize it makes it worse.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OK guys I'll retract my Revenue statement, you're probably right about keeping their readers happy. So that being said I'll say they we're biased to keep the biggest majority of their readers happy, Harley riders.
I'm not crying foul but if any of you have ridden both bikes I can't see how you could give the Harley an avantage in power, handling, brakes, lean angle or comfort (heat/vibration). Everything is subjective and we all have our own opinions, I just don't agree with theirs.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
19853 said:
OK guys I'll retract my Revenue statement, you're probably right about keeping their readers happy. So that being said I'll say they we're biased to keep the biggest majority of their readers happy, Harley riders. 
I'm not crying foul but if any of you have ridden both bikes I can't see how you could give the Harley an avantage in power, handling, brakes, lean angle or comfort (heat/vibration). Everything is subjective and we all have our own opinions, I just don't agree with theirs.
The last Street Glide I rode felt very light and nimble. Didn't seem to hold a line in hard cornering well, but that was also an 08 model before the new frame. In any event turn in was light and the brakes were adequate. The Chieftain I demo'd had mushy brakes, twitchy clutch and a couple times I thought the throttle by wire had a lag. Nothing I thought couldn't be fixed with a clutch adjustment, better brake pads, and getting used to the throttle. But, If the 2014 Street Glide has the improved 09 frame and improved brakes I could see handling and brakes going to the Harley. I thought the Indian's power delivery was much better, but again that's comparing it to an 08, not a 14 which has the 103 with a new intake and new cams. If I were choosing between the two for 24k each I'd pick the Indian but in reality if I were buying a bagger today for 24k I'd have a Cross Country 8-Ball with a 110' from The Vic Shop that would blow them both away. Let's compare two baggers with about 100-110 ft-lbs of torque and 75 horsepower to a bagger with 125 ft-lbs of torque and 135 hp! Bonus I'd still have 2-3k left in my checking account for a one of a kind custom paint job.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
My brother had an o6 street glide and this past summer he bought the 13 street g? We exchange bikes once in a while so I have had plenty of opps on the glides , the older o e was like riding a real gut buster his 13 is heaps better and has a wonderfull pull pretty much all the way up! Nice to ride and I very much like the changes of the new gliude! But my 09 pin oh well its just better! I like the ***** to but to lumpy.
 
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