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Indian has the Scout ( I own one -550 lbs < >) and the larger Dark horse, Chiefs, etc. ( 750-850 >lbs) but nothing in between. The Victory I had was 650-670 lbs I think and was a good compromise ( I should have kept it) . I’ve owned many bikes and appreciate an American made v-twin cruiser. I also believe that all future Indian bikes are going to be water cooled ( adds weight) but IMO Indian should have something that fits in between. The later Vic motors were great motors, strong, a lot of torque, and Motors looked nice to boot. Being air/oiled cooled seemed to work well enough. Their styling was a little different but I wish they made a comeback-Polaris /Indian line could benefit IMO. Anyone else feel this way ?
 

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I think we will see the PP108 in a screaming light weight frame in the next couple of years. Riders are begging Indian to build something between the Scout and the Chieftain/Challenger models that screams down the highway and does not weigh 800 lbs.

Hell, I'd buy one site unseen with the right engine.....
 

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Middleweight bikes don’t make money, or better won’t sell because they are priced to high. The big bikes make the most margins for Polaris. They don’t sell the volume to make it financially sound to do so.

Also Polaris already considers the Scout to be a mid size bike.

Yes, Harley makes mid size bikes and you see how they are doing financially.

For a mid size bike made in America to make sense for Indian, they would have to sell it for 17K to 24K Shich I doubt there would be a big market for.
 

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They seem to always place emphasis on market share. This is a piece of the pie that's being left on the table. Maybe it isn't financially sound to offer a 650 lb cruiser, but I know i would get one. I'd probably trade in my Vegas if they offered something in that class with the power plus motor. But for now I'll hang on to it.
 

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They seem to always place emphasis on market share. This is a piece of the pie that's being left on the table. Maybe it isn't financially sound to offer a 650 lb cruiser, but I know i would get one. I'd probably trade in my Vegas if they offered something in that class with the power plus motor. But for now I'll hang on to it.
Publicly held companies 1# priority is to satisfy shareholders.
 

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Publicly held companies 1# priority is to satisfy shareholders.
I understand that. But let's not pretend Polaris is all knowing and has only made wise decisions that have benefited shareholders. They've made plenty of mistakes and mis calculations. I'm sure they know more than I do about what demand is out there, plus factor in the crazy times we're in, and it might be a good idea not to branch out too far. I'm just saying that if they made one, I'd likely by it and I'm sure a lot of other people would too.

I think it's a mistake to model the line up on what works and doesn't work for Harley. There is good data to be had by looking at them and taking consideration, but Indian is not Harley and Harley has challenges that are unique to Harley.

Going by this logic, indian should have never introduced the challenger because the Harley buyer supposedly only likes air cooled twins.
 

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The "midsize bike" thing always confuses me.. A member posted a detailed comparison (of all dimensions) between the Scout and the new soft tails - they're practically the same !

With a RM, Chief Classic, and Scout (with 2up touring ) in the garage, I can''t begin to imagine what something "inbetween" a Scout and a Chief would even look like, or feature...

Perhaps a "heavy" Scout with better suspension, fairing and hard bags? A lighter Chief ?

My 25yr old daughter (5'6" 120 lbs) won't give me back my Chief Classic - and rides it often.. She used to favor the Scout over her light and powerful Duc Monster (this was before I bought "my" Chief)...

Just what IS a midsize bike and why would I want one ?
 

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If you look at all the manufacturers, including Jap bikes, they have pretty much all gone away from the “mid size” engine platform. Yamaha has pretty much got out of cruisers, Kawasaki goes from a 900 to a 1700, Honda’s only cruiserish bike over a 750 is the fury, Suzuki is the only one who still has a 1500, and its closer to 800 than 650 lbs. I believe that tells us, that size motorcycle wasn’t selling. If it was, they would all have a bike in that market.
 

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I understand that. But let's not pretend Polaris is all knowing and has only made wise decisions that have benefited shareholders. They've made plenty of mistakes and mis calculations. I'm sure they know more than I do about what demand is out there, plus factor in the crazy times we're in, and it might be a good idea not to branch out too far. I'm just saying that if they made one, I'd likely by it and I'm sure a lot of other people would too.

I think it's a mistake to model the line up on what works and doesn't work for Harley. There is good data to be had by looking at them and taking consideration, but Indian is not Harley and Harley has challenges that are unique to Harley.

Going by this logic, indian should have never introduced the challenger because the Harley buyer supposedly only likes air cooled twins.
The Challenger was never just marketed for Harley riders. It was also marketed to the fixed faring and water cooled market.

Here is why you most likely won’t see a mid size bike. A mid sized bike would have to be sold at a lower profit margin and would cut into sales of the heavyweights which make Indian the most Money. Scouts exists primarily to get new riders into the brand and don’t make much money at all for Indian.

Yes there is a market for mid size bikes, but it is not large enough to be profitable in the big picture.

What many people think is a smaller Scout is cheaper to make than the big 111 bikes.

Labor cost is the same as employees make the same money assembling each bike. The watercooled Scout engine is more complicated and more costly to make than the big thunder stoke engines as well. The cost of wheels, frames and other items are about the same. But they have to sell the Scouts at a lower price even though they cost about the same to make as the bigger bikes. A mid size bike would be no different.
 

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Indian needs to make a "Muscle Bike"

a slightly bigger Scout with a stock 250 out back, @ 37 degree rake, 110ci, 120hp/120tq and weighing @ 650lbs...

If Indian is going after the Street Glide with the Challenger, why can't it point its finger and say "hey Breakout, you and your Softail Slim brother better watch out because we're comin for you and we're gonna be better !!!"

I can dream, right ??
 

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A mid sized bike would have to be sold at a lower profit margin and would cut into sales of the heavyweights
We may never know this to be the case. Of course it's easy for me to say just build one. I'm not the one that has to put fourth the time and money it takes to bring a model to market. But, I'll say it anyway. Just build one. Lol.

We might find that it brings a demographic that is looking for a touring capable cruiser that is turned off by the "geezer glide" style bikes. Isn't that one of the arguments being passed around right now? The kids aren't into the heavyweights? I feel like I read that or some variation at least twice a week from doom and gloom Harley articles. "The boomers are aging out and the younger buyers aren't into the big bikes"...meh. what do I know. Like I said, it'd be nice to see an option in that class imo.
 

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I too would love to see a tweener bike, but also recognize its a limited market.

My thought of a compromise would be a factory Scout touring model. Make it a 1300, add a larger gas tank, add an inch or so of suspension front and rear, and a dual disc front brake. They have fairing, windshield and foot board options already along with all the regular accessories.

If you wanted to go a bit further stretch the swing arm and change rear fender for a bigger 2 up seating area and design some factory hard bags.

Just my $.02
 

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A Scout with the 2 up Touring, and full of fuel, will tip the scale close to or at 600 lbs. I have one.

It gets "blown around" much more than my Chief and/or my RM on the highway. I have never highway traveled with it, past about 60 miles..

So my question is, will a 600 lb bike be able to provide comfortable day long highway rides in heavy crosswinds ?
 
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Indian needs to make a "Muscle Bike"

a slightly bigger Scout with a stock 250 out back, @ 37 degree rake, 110ci, 120hp/120tq and weighing @ 650lbs...

If Indian is going after the Street Glide with the Challenger, why can't it point its finger and say "hey Breakout, you and your Softail Slim brother better watch out because we're comin for you and we're gonna be better !!!"

I can dream, right ??
YES!!! Something like the Blackhawk they used to have. To compete (and beat) against the Softails and dead Dynas.
 

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A Scout with the 2 up Touring, and full of fuel, will tip the scale close to or at 600 lbs. I have one.

It gets "blown around" much more than my Chief and/or my RM on the highway. I have never highway traveled with it, past about 60 miles..

So my question is, will a 600 lb bike be able to provide comfortable day long highway rides in heavy crosswinds ?
This bike weighs in at 640 lbs. It doesn't blow me around unless it is a gale force wind, but my big bike gets blown around in that scenario too...
597718
 
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I'm not sure how much room there is between the scout and the chief, to be honest.

I think Indian should start trying to compete more with the Japanese and European OEMs.

Make a V4 sport bike with 600-1000cc displacements. I see sports bikes every day, but not cruisers and certainly not touring bikes.
 

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I'm not sure how much room there is between the scout and the chief, to be honest.

I think Indian should start trying to compete more with the Japanese and European OEMs.

Make a V4 sport bike with 600-1000cc displacements. I see sports bikes every day, but not cruisers and certainly not touring bikes.

The japanses and the Europeans companies have a huge advantage, cheap overseas labor. Indian can't compete with them in the same market here in the US.
 

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The japanses and the Europeans companies have a huge advantage, cheap overseas labor. Indian can't compete with them in the same market here in the US.
BMW makes their bikes in Germany. Ducati makes their bikes in Italy. I don't know about Italy, but Germany has a high cost of manufacturing.
 

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BMW makes their bikes in Germany. Ducati makes their bikes in Italy. I don't know about Italy, but Germany has a high cost of manufacturing.

Not not really, most of the euro companies outsource most of the engines and other parts to china and other countries. They just do limited final assembly.Many legendary German companies make their products overseas.
 

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Not not really, most of the euro companies outsource most of the engines and other parts to china and other countries. They just do limited final assembly.Many legendary German companies make their products overseas.
Ducati makes the engines in Italy. BMW's flat twin, I4, and I6 are made in Germany.
 
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