Indian Motorcycle Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter HERE for September's Ride of the Month Challenge!
101 - 120 of 201 Posts

·
Registered
2022 Rogue
Joined
·
106 Posts
Compare of first and second pass with expanded AFR, as hard as I tried to hit all the cells, still missed big chunks between various rpm bands, or loads a little smoothing and set up for log set 3. I also create an identical tune with factory afr settings to ride on if not running logs for tuning the expanded afr, don’t want to forget I’ve got expanded afr tune in it and crack throttle to wot when just riding around lol
Colorfulness Photograph Rectangle Font Screenshot
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #102 ·
Compare of first and second pass with expanded AFR, as hard as I tried to hit all the cells, still missed big chunks between various rpm bands, or loads a little smoothing and set up for log set 3. I also create an identical tune with factory afr settings to ride on if not running logs for tuning the expanded afr, don’t want to forget I’ve got expanded afr tune in it and crack throttle to wot when just riding around lol
View attachment 697194
My goodness man, that is excellent! Most never even come close to this range. Your mid-range has dialed in very well. All and all you have a very well developed VE table. You might want to manually add 3% to the VE table in the 99.99 - 104.99 cells to cover those cells. I would extrapolate on the cells that you did not hit where you have known good data for the end-points. If you repeat this run and you are getting much reduced variations between this tune and then next in the higher RPM/Load ranges, I would call it a day and restore the Target AFR. At that point, concentrate on making the operating range (idle through cruise) range as smooth and balanced as can be with additional logs and corrections.
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Percent view Comparison of my most recent pass in tune lab. Took me longer to figure out screenshots in windows than to save the new tune after running the VE IPW equation on 10 or so logs. Getting in that narrow percentage range with these. I believe Craigs target was 1% on IPW and 3% or less on VE tables. Just thought I'd share some screenshots since I haven't seen many publicly posted. Keep on Tuning!
View attachment 697151
View attachment 697152
View attachment 697153
Those are looking very good! Should be running a lot smoother.
 

·
Registered
2022 Rogue
Joined
·
106 Posts
Thanks Craig! I’m trying to get this as smooth as possible with my exhaust and factory intake before the zipper maxflow arrives, my IPW comps are almost there as well, I know there will be a lot of logs and tweaks for the zipper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Those are looking very good! Should be running a lot smoother.
It's incredible to me how much improvement I've seen since I began! Thanks for your help. It's been a fun process. I ran a good 40 minute log yesterday with expanded AFR but have yet to review or apply the collected data. I was exhausted from the heat so I just flashed the non expanded tune back and went inside to eat a few popsicles. I'll probably run that correction tonight after work.
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #106 ·
It's incredible to me how much improvement I've seen since I began! Thanks for your help. It's been a fun process. I ran a good 40 minute log yesterday with expanded AFR but have yet to review or apply the collected data. I was exhausted from the heat so I just flashed the non expanded tune back and went inside to eat a few popsicles. I'll probably run that correction tonight after work.
Makes a huge difference! It is a fun process, though it was not too much fun early on. The equations that @cmoalem and I (and DynoJet engineers) developed took several years with literally a thousand + bikes being tuned to develop them!

I am amazed I did not wear out my ECU’s memory with the amount of flashing and testing I did!

I am delighted that folks are learning and applying these techniques to have a better riding experience!

I plan to upload a new set of videos this week with an equation to tune the Mass Flow Through the Throttle Body. This table has a lot to do with startup and performance behavior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
Makes a huge difference! It is a fun process, though it was not too much fun early on. The equations that @cmoalem and I (and DynoJet engineers) developed took several years with literally a thousand + bikes being tuned to develop them!

I am amazed I did not wear out my ECU’s memory with the amount of flashing and testing I did!

I am delighted that folks are learning and applying these techniques to have a better riding experience!

I plan to upload a new set of videos this week with an equation to tune the Mass Flow Through the Throttle Body. This table has a lot to do with startup and performance behavior.
Looking forward to it!
 

·
Registered
2022 Rogue
Joined
·
106 Posts
Got in another run with expanded AFR table, hit a bunch of cells i missed the other day, in the 6500-7500 range still adding fuel in those cells, while cells i did hit the other day and today were adjusting in the 0-4.5% range, one or 2 more log runs and I'm ready to start it all over, (my intake has shipped)!! ill post up screen shots after my next log run, but damn when compared to stock there have been massive changes to the fueling, Can't believe the factory tune is that far off, especially in the high load and upper rpm ranges, 5-20% with stock intake!
 

·
Registered
2022 Rogue
Joined
·
106 Posts
Question


Since we don’t have the capability to zero LTFT’s
( I am accustomed to zeroing them after each adjustment on my dodge) would it be beneficial to disconnect battery periodically between logs and adjustments? I believe this will ups reset the trims.

on a separate note

while out logging today i had my PV3 set up on the fuel trim page, and i witnessed Rear STFT changing as i rode, but rear LTFT never moved from 0, went back to old logs and sure enough when i graph only LTFT it has NEVER recorded anything, is that normal on the scouts? can't believe i just noticed this!
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #110 ·
Question


Since we don’t have the capability to zero LTFT’s
( I am accustomed to zeroing them after each adjustment on my dodge) would it be beneficial to disconnect battery periodically between logs and adjustments? I believe this will ups reset the trims.

on a separate note

while out logging today i had my PV3 set up on the fuel trim page, and i witnessed Rear STFT changing as i rode, but rear LTFT never moved from 0, went back to old logs and sure enough when i graph only LTFT it has NEVER recorded anything, any ideas?
You do have the ability to zero the LTFT's...everytime you flash a tune, the LTFT's are zero'd out. This is why you do not see the LTFT's coming into play.

It is normal not to see the LTFT's come into play if your tune is converging well. The way the LTFT's work is they are a moving average of the STFT's. It takes about 100 miles or so just to get them to move and if the STFT's are very good, they will not move at all.

What you cannot zero out is the STFT's as they are the real time fuel correction that the ECU has to apply to get the AFR to a 14.7:1 ratio. The LTFT's are used as a place holder or starting point of fuel that has been learned over time that is absolutely needed to correct for AFR at that particular operating cell. By having this LTFT, the STFT's do not have to provide as much correction to hit the AFR. Or a better way is the LTFT's provide a faster resolution to correcting the fuel then if the ECU had to hunt each time with just the STFT's.

Edit: Something that is a good thing to do though is to flash the STK file to the ECU, let the bike sit for about 5 minutes afterward with the power off. Then power back up and flash the DJT tune you are currently using. This will assure the file in the ECU is in a known good state.

As far as disconnecting the battery terminal (Neg), the better alternative is pulling both the VCM and ECU Circuit Breakers and wait for a minute or two before putting them back in. This will reset the VCM and ECU. The CB's are the 10 amp and 20 amp sliver fuse like components in your fuse box.
 

·
Registered
2022 Rogue
Joined
·
106 Posts
You do have the ability to zero the LTFT's...everytime you flash a tune, the LTFT's are zero'd out. This is why you do not see the LTFT's coming into play.

It is normal not to see the LTFT's come into play if your tune is converging well. The way the LTFT's work is they are a moving average of the STFT's. It takes about 100 miles or so just to get them to move and if the STFT's are very good, they will not move at all.

What you cannot zero out is the STFT's as they are the real time fuel correction that the ECU has to apply to get the AFR to a 14.7:1 ratio. The LTFT's are used as a place holder or starting point of fuel that has been learned over time that is absolutely needed to correct for AFR at that particular operating cell. By having this LTFT, the STFT's do not have to provide as much correction to hit the AFR. Or a better way is the LTFT's provide a faster resolution to correcting the fuel then if the ECU had to hunt each time with just the STFT's.
Thanks Craig! you are making the Indians fly one amateur at a time!
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #114 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
That is an excellent run! Very hard to hit those cells. Your tune has converged very well. Your fuel is about done, at least for the expanded portion.
So, looking at this, I'm seeing corrections in the range I've already run many passes on, and they are pretty small, but I was wondering about the other factors in data logging. The data collected for this run was during cooler weather that the last couple were, probably 10-15 degrees difference between last runs logs and this runs. @CraigB1960 can you tell us how the weather changes would come into play here, or any other things you've noticed related to this? I have been sticking to the same gas. The gas differences I thought were noticeable in the data, so I just picked a local bp where I have been filling up to keep it consistent.
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #116 ·
So, looking at this, I'm seeing corrections in the range I've already run many passes on, and they are pretty small, but I was wondering about the other factors in data logging. The data collected for this run was during cooler weather that the last couple were, probably 10-15 degrees difference between last runs logs and this runs. @CraigB1960 can you tell us how the weather changes would come into play here, or any other things you've noticed related to this? I have been sticking to the same gas. The gas differences I thought were noticeable in the data, so I just picked a local bp where I have been filling up to keep it consistent.
It is good to keep consistent gas, you can have a couple of percent differences due to gas. Weather changes do have an affect, though the ECU does a very good job to correct for the environment.

I personally would not get wrapped up in those things, especially in the area of the normally open-loop area. In your example, I would call it a day for the expanded area and restore the Target AFR table. I would also bump up the higher RPM/Load area in the VE table that you just tuned by 3% to provide some margin for gas. (The area that is 4K and above RPM and 50% load). This also compensates for the narrowband being used for tuning.

Then concentrate on getting the idle through 3.75k as good as it can get. Put a couple hundred miles in the tune and then take logs. This way the LTFT’s will come into play and the resulting corrections will be better.

When done, it will be time to work on the Mass Flow Though the Throttle Body table. I should have the info up today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
I've finished my first attempt at fuel corrections. On the last 4 or so passes, I wasn't hitting very many cells. I was riding with others, more joy riding, and just not very good for tuning (I guess). Following those corrections the low-rpm performance was worse. I loaded the tune from pass #6, and all is well again. I was very happy with that point in the process originally, and have no urgency to proceed further - just throwing it out there for others that if you're not riding "for tuning purposes" you maybe shouldn't be recording.
Anyone care to confirm or correct?
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #118 ·
I've finished my first attempt at fuel corrections. On the last 4 or so passes, I wasn't hitting very many cells. I was riding with others, more joy riding, and just not very good for tuning (I guess). Following those corrections the low-rpm performance was worse. I loaded the tune from pass #6, and all is well again. I was very happy with that point in the process originally, and have no urgency to proceed further - just throwing it out there for others that if you're not riding "for tuning purposes" you maybe shouldn't be recording.
Anyone care to confirm or correct?
Did you do a lot of stopping with engine off? The low RPM area is significantly affected if you do not ride for at least 5 minutes before recording after every engine start.
 

·
Lifetime Achievement Award
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Discussion Starter · #120 ·
What's the word on the Mass Flow Though the Throttle Body table section on your blog @CraigB1960 ?
Hopefully late this evening. I have been distracted with other tuning stuff and want to make sure the info is readable and accurate.
 
101 - 120 of 201 Posts
Top