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Indian Motorcycle Tuning - Master Class

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Here is my long promised thread for discussions and resources on how to tune your Indian motorcycles...TS111, TS116, Scouts 60 & 69, & FTR-1200. The main information I will be providing is through my Indian Roadmaster Blog, which I have turned into an Indian tuning related site only. Please read and reference that blog. If you have questions or comments please do it here so others will have the benefit of the Q&A. There are no dumb questions, so do not hesitate to post. Feel free to copy and paste from that blog here to clarify any questions you may have. I hope the blog will serve as a good reference for your tuning efforts, print it out and use it as a resourse.

The reference blog is here: My Indian Roadmaster Blog

This is a big effort and I am slowly rolling out the information. I will not be going over all the tables in a tune, but will hit on the most important. Please feel free to ask questions on the other tables and we will discuss in this thread. My goal is for you to be able to safely manipulate your tune and through logging of data, make your own corrections. I will be supplying the equations I have written in conjunction with our friend @cmoalem. I have modified these equations to take out the Wideband portion of the equations since this is to support non-commercial tuning. If there are any Python wizards here, please feel free to modify and better these equations and share with me and others.

Finally, I do not claim to be an expert. If I provide any information that is not correct, please post the correction or DM me. We are all here to learn as much as possible in the very short time we are given on the Earth....let's be kind to each other in this thread and perhaps we can demystify this thing called engine tuning.
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I'm going to have to sit down to watch the vidoes & read Craig's webpage to learn how to do my own tuning.

@CraigB1960 have or are you going to show how to make changes for the throttle to respond more like throttle by cable? I went banging through the gears & had a big no response after shifting & twisting to full throttle. It did respond but after 2-3 seconds of appearing to not respond at all. This made me wonder if something had happened.

I know it has been said many times that you are the master for tuning these bikes. You are greatly appreciated for sharing your knowledge by giving all of us the information to do our own tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
@CraigB1960 have or are you going to show how to make changes for the throttle to respond more like throttle by cable? I went banging through the gears & had a big no response after shifting & twisting to full throttle. It did respond but after 2-3 seconds of appearing to not respond at all. This made me wonder if something had happened.
Yep: Drive By Wire settings
 

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"In 2019 and newer models, Polaris introduced the Drive Mode. This is a great feature for the user, but a major headache for the tuner if asked to change them. I usually do not change these tables unless the client asks. Usually this request has been to take the Standard Mode and copy those tables over to the Touring Mode. Then create a new Standard Mode by taking the current Standard Mode and Sport Mode and averaging these values to create the new Standard Mode." Is the headache just because there are 3x the tables to change or is there more to it than that? I really like the idea of having 3 customizable modes to be able to tune to my liking. I believe it's 9 tables on my 2018, 3 each for 1st, 2nd, 3+, and it took me a long time the first time to go through and carefully choose my adjustments. That was before I learned to copy and paste and save myself a lot of back and forth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 · (Edited)
"In 2019 and newer models, Polaris introduced the Drive Mode. This is a great feature for the user, but a major headache for the tuner if asked to change them. I usually do not change these tables unless the client asks. Usually this request has been to take the Standard Mode and copy those tables over to the Touring Mode. Then create a new Standard Mode by taking the current Standard Mode and Sport Mode and averaging these values to create the new Standard Mode." Is the headache just because there are 3x the tables to change or is there more to it than that? I really like the idea of having 3 customizable modes to be able to tune to my liking. I believe it's 9 tables on my 2018, 3 each for 1st, 2nd, 3+, and it took me a long time the first time to go through and carefully choose my adjustments. That was before I learned to copy and paste and save myself a lot of back and forth.
Yep, it is because of the 3X more curves to keep up with. Also, the tables are not in order as well as Polaris changed names and order for the curves in 2021.

I have a spreadsheet that I use to generate new curves if requested by the email nd user. I might add this spreadsheet for others to use, but I have to clean it up and add all the newer years.
 

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Yep, it is because of the 3X more curves to keep up with. Also, the tables are not in order as well as Polaris chanced names and order for the curves in 2021.

I have a spreadsheet that I use to generate new curves if requested by the email nd user. I might add this spreadsheet for others to use, but I have to clean it up and add all the newer years.
Hey Craig, thanks again for going the extra mile. It is my recollection that in order to put the S3 cams from Indian's BBK into a 2021 111 TS, one should ideally start with the old S2 tune for the 111's as the starting point. Also, is it true that when one buys say the S1 AC or the S3 cams from Indian, that the flash that comes with it can be chosen? IOW, with the S1 AC, the flash card would contain all the different tunes from Indian and the mechanic would just choose which one to upload. Thanks again for all you do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
Hey Craig, thanks again for going the extra mile. It is my recollection that in order to put the S3 cams from Indian's BBK into a 2021 111 TS, one should ideally start with the old S2 tune for the 111's as the starting point. Also, is it true that when one buys say the S1 AC or the S3 cams from Indian, that the flash that comes with it can be chosen? IOW, with the S1 AC, the flash card would contain all the different tunes from Indian and the mechanic would just choose which one to upload. Thanks again for all you do.
Yes. Though I was running a stock factory on my bike at times, I felt the stage 2 base performed better overall.

The calibration card is not geared to one specific stage, the dealer selects it based on your need.
 

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Yes. Though I was running a stock factory on my bike at times, I felt the stage 2 base performed better overall.

The calibration card is not geared to one specific stage, the dealer selects it based on your need.
That's great, thanks Craig. If I get the PV3 from FM, do you know if they have a tune, or maybe you have an old one I could start with. I will be running S1 AC, S3 Cams, and Khrome Werks slipons and header in my '21 111.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
That's great, thanks Craig. If I get the PV3 from FM, do you know if they have a tune, or maybe you have an old one I could start with. I will be running S1 AC, S3 Cams, and Khrome Werks slipons and header in my '21 111.
I never developed one for the 21, however I have converted my 2019 one to 21 IIRC, I believe we took logs and tweaked it in. I do not think they have that one, just DM me when you need it.

I do believe the 2019 and up bikes, they need the stage 2 factory calibration to idle properly with the stage 3 cam

I will look through my tune base today to verify.
 

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I never developed one for the 21, however I have converted my 2019 one to 21 IIRC, I believe we took logs and tweaked it in. I do not think they have that one, just DM me when you need it.

I do believe the 2019 and up bikes, they need the stage 2 factory calibration to idle properly with the stage 3 cam

I will look through my tune base today to verify.
Thanks again, Craig. I will let you know when I get the install done and Stage 2 calibration uploaded.
 

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Thanks again, Craig. I will let you know when I get the install done and Stage 2 calibration uploaded.
I checked my files. I have done a 2021 TS111 with 558 cams and a 2020 & 2019 TS111's with Stage 3 cams. The 2020 calibration is identical to your 2021, so converting is no issue. To the best of my knowledge, it is running well.

It is based on Factory Stage 2 calibration, so when you get it done, do a READ ECU to extract the STK file from the ECU and send it to me at indiantuning at gmail and I will send you the tune. Please do purchase the PV3 from FM as they do support our community!
 

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I checked my files. I have done a 2021 TS111 with 558 cams and a 2020 & 2019 TS111's with Stage 3 cams. The 2020 calibration is identical to your 2021, so converting is no issue. To the best of my knowledge, it is running well.

It is based on Factory Stage 2 calibration, so when you get it done, do a READ ECU to extract the STK file from the ECU and send it to me at indiantuning at gmail and I will send you the tune. Please do purchase the PV3 from FM as they do support our community!
Outstanding, thanks 👍
 

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Help! After doing to logs and updates trying to open my tune for a third update and get a message stating I don’t have required license to open the tune file ???
 

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Help! After doing to logs and updates trying to open my tune for a third update and get a message stating I don’t have required license to open the tune file ???
That is usually due to no connection to Dynojet’s server. Shut down the Application launcher and make sure you are connected to the Internet. Once you verify that you are, re-launch Power Core. If you are still getting the warning, their server might be down. Try later.
 

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Yeah I was out in the sticks, had to use my phone for a hotspot , and it worked just fine !! Can’t thank you enough for your equations and knowledge, significant changes in normal op range on the 22 scout, adding fuel in almost all ve cells ,
 

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Craig, have you done any tuning for the Lloydz 585 cams? I have a 19 Roadmaster and have gone through your tutorials and have done about 11 passes so it is tuned pretty well as far as the VE table and IPW go. Is thier anything I should do with the timing?
 

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Craig, have you done any tuning for the Lloydz 585 cams? I have a 19 Roadmaster and have gone through your tutorials and have done about 11 passes so it is tuned pretty well as far as the VE table and IPW go. Is thier anything I should do with the timing?
Perhaps the count is in the hundreds!....lol. There are lots of things you can do with the timing, but that is a whole different animal. I will be going through timing changes in up-coming tutorials, with equation(s). My next set will be how to correct the Alpha-N table, which is that Mass Flow Through the Throttle Body table. Possibly the most mis-understood table, yet can improve a lot of performance issues. We are working our way down the list.
 

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Another KUDO to Craig B! We had discussions on o2 bung adapters prior to arrival of my bike, was concerned the o2 sensor would not get good flow and give less than accurate readings. So in my first few logs and tune corrections I wasn’t seeing what I was expecting to see, some fairly large fuel corrections. So I pulled my new exhaust, cut down the O2 bungs, and reinstalled with sensors MUCH more in the exhaust flow,
First log and correction was much more in line with expectations !
LESSON FOR ALL, if using aftermarket exhaust make damn sure the O2 sensor is still in the exhaust flow ! Screw them in and see where the sensor sits before installing the exhaust !
( mine were in the pipe, but mostly in a pocket inside bung reducer and not getting adequate flow )
 

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Percent view Comparison of my most recent pass in tune lab. Took me longer to figure out screenshots in windows than to save the new tune after running the VE IPW equation on 10 or so logs. Getting in that narrow percentage range with these. I believe Craigs target was 1% on IPW and 3% or less on VE tables. Just thought I'd share some screenshots since I haven't seen many publicly posted. Keep on Tuning!
Colorfulness Product Rectangle Font Screenshot

Rectangle Computer Font Screenshot Line

Product Rectangle Font Screenshot Computer
 
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