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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
Last night, I downloaded an 'unlocked' tune from Dynojet, that "about" matched my stock configuration, strictly for the purpose of logging rides and modifying it. However - major shoutout to Dynojet~! With this tune the dreaded knocking that I've been desperate to avoid for the last 45K miles is finally gone! I never dreamed that a canned tune would be better than the custom one I received from FuelMoto (and the stock tune was dreadful BTW). I guess my fiancé is right about my needing to be more willing to try new things. :rolleyes:
I logged the ride to work, and I'll have couple more after the trip home. I'm actually somewhat looking forward to working in PowerCore... as confounding as I do find this program... it will get better once I have real files to work with, right? I have to remind myself what I tell others at work: all the preparation and research you can do is great, but things won't really make sense until you start doing it.
The tune has everything to do with noise on our bikes. Slight timing changes really impact the noise in the pre-2019 bikes. I have a course coming up that will address this with equations that will help.

I have put a lot of work into this blog and especially the videos to take the fear out of tuning your bike! Take your time, do watch & listen to the videos and read the blog, practice and you will be fine. There is no other resource on or off the net that goes through tuning like my resources.....I should charge! However there is a donation button....hint...hint.

I am getting ready to put up example/practice files so you can run the tunelab equations and compare what I did and what you come up with. It all takes a lot of time for me to assemble, so look for this sometime over this weekend.

Unless you really change some values you should not, you will be fine. Remember, everything is reversible. Always keep a known good tune on your PV3 in case you get out and have issues, pull off and flash the known good tune, you will be fine then.

And a final note, I have been unlocking my tunes upon request. I was thinking about putting them out in a large sharepoint, but really do not want to enable "professional" tuners from taking them, using and charging folks for them. And yes, that has happened in the past.
 

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Get a tune from Dynojet, you will be able to modify that one. The Fuelmoto tunes are locked, unless you are going to have fuel moto do the tunes for you. But then you still won't be able to edit them. I started with the DJ tune and I am using Craig's tune lab script, everything is coming along nicely.
It seems as though some tunes from DJ are locked as well. I'm getting a password request to "decrypt this tune" for the one I downloaded from their website (which I used to log my rides today) ...and the custom one I was sent as well. I can open the .stk file (the 1,025K one) and made the initial changes for max speed, torque limits, etc. I guess I need to contact FuelMoto... Craig?

The "Tunelab" tab showed up (finally) and I got the equation in there. Got the logs into the data center, set up the fields and have some fairly cool-looking graphs to look at - so - progress. (?) Some of my LTFT's look a bit wild... but mostly just when it was in 8th gear. :LOL: Engine speed at these times was idle, so I guess 8 is neutral?

Since I'm stuck - so it's cocktail hour.


Edit: I now see one can save the modified .stk file as a .djt. Am I catching on??
Just ran the formula... looking at the VE changes... never thought I'd get this far.
Can't wait to flash the bike and do it all over again!
 

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You got it. Modify the .stk file and start tuning with data logs and Craig’s equations.

i could be wrong, but I think when you buy the license from Dynojet they create the editable .stk file and the .djt files are saving only the changes made. At least that’s how I see it since the .djt files are so much smaller and always have to have an .stk file to reference.

So as long as you always keep a copy of the .stk file and the last .djt file that ran well, you can always go back to what you knew was working. I’m really enjoying how much smoother my bike is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
It seems as though some tunes from DJ are locked as well. I'm getting a password request to "decrypt this tune" for the one I downloaded from their website (which I used to log my rides today) ...and the custom one I was sent as well. I can open the .stk file (the 1,025K one) and made the initial changes for max speed, torque limits, etc. I guess I need to contact FuelMoto... Craig?

The "Tunelab" tab showed up (finally) and I got the equation in there. Got the logs into the data center, set up the fields and have some fairly cool-looking graphs to look at - so - progress. (?) Some of my LTFT's look a bit wild... but mostly just when it was in 8th gear. :LOL: Engine speed at these times was idle, so I guess 8 is neutral?

Since I'm stuck - so it's cocktail hour.


Edit: I now see one can save the modified .stk file as a .djt. Am I catching on??
Just ran the formula... looking at the VE changes... never thought I'd get this far.
Can't wait to flash the bike and do it all over again!
I sent you a DM with info on how to open the DJT file.

Note on Tunelab tab, it will only show up when you have a tune loaded, either an STK or DJT file. Yes on 8 as being neutral.

I have a video that explains how to save the STK to a DJT to build your first tune, though it is buried in this video at time mark 6:20. There is a lot of info on these videos that is easy to miss.

Blog Link

Video Link
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
You got it. Modify the .stk file and start tuning with data logs and Craig’s equations.

i could be wrong, but I think when you buy the license from Dynojet they create the editable .stk file and the .djt files are saving only the changes made. At least that’s how I see it since the .djt files are so much smaller and always have to have an .stk file to reference.

So as long as you always keep a copy of the .stk file and the last .djt file that ran well, you can always go back to what you knew was working. I’m really enjoying how much smoother my bike is.
You are correct to some extent. There is never a user editable STK file. Dynojet inserts hooks into the STK file, such as data channels, that did not exists before, when you flash the DJT file. This is all user transparent and a very secretive process.

The PV3 takes the STK file, which is the factory calibration file and plugs in the changes made and saved in the DJT file as well as creates the data channels used by the PV3 and recorded in the logs. This makes flashing the tune faster instead of having to flash the entire STK file each time you make a change. Back in the old days of the PVCX, it took about 12 minutes to flash the STK file versus about 4 minutes for the DJT. Even then, the 4 minutes was forever if you were a dyno tuner.

I like to think of the STK file like an Excel template with the DJT file having the actual data inserted into the spreadsheet.

However it does lead to issues if you flash your ECU with a lot of DJT file changes. I find that after awhile you should flash the STK file, let the bike sit for a couple of minutes and then flash the newest DJT file back. There seems to have creeping leprosy overtime by flashing DJT files and this procedure resets the ECU to a known good state. How many times? I do not have an accurate number, but I would do it every 6 cycles just to make sure.

The STK file must always be on the PV3 for it to be able to flash the DJT file. If you should misplace or erase the STK file, no worries, just send me, or Dynojet, or if purchased from FM the PV_Info.txt file and we can send you a new STK file that is an exact copy of the one you read out of the ECU. Or ask here, just identify the Tune CMP and Checksum. This goes back to the STK file being non-user editable. There is nothing unique about the STK file, except for the Tune CMP and its Checksum. That is how the ECU (and we) identify the Factory Calibration (STK).

You can open the PV_Info.txt file to see how this is identified. Same type of info in the Tune Info dialog box.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Just a general note. I have put out a lot of information and hours of video up at this point. I do not expect anyone to fully grasp yet master any of this stuff. It will come with time and practice. It took me 7 years and tuning a thousand and more of Indians to get to the point I am now. Also, I have not polished any of the videos, I tend to just start and um my way through it....sorry about that.

So when I reference a video or blog page, it is to help steer you and others toward the info. Certainly not to discourage. It is a lot to take in for sure. I am hoping this will become a good reference thread for future tuners as well, so please keep posting your progress and ask your questions. We will be covering a lot of material, some of which I am not 100% certain of. There are thousands of tables in the factory calibration that we do not have access to. These tables can and do affect the behavior of the fuel system in ways that we cannot explain. It is what it is, we just have to make the best of what we have.

If there are certain topics or questions you have post them and I will try to provide an answer. If you are hesitant to ask here, send me an email through the blog and I will try to answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
I posted the a new video that covers an example that you can do yourself to see if you come up with the same result I do. This is a good tutorial on fuel corrections (without making any manual changes to the VE table).

Example Tutorial Blog post

I upload all the videos at 4k resolution. You might want to hit the gear in Youtube and select a lower resolution if you are getting jumpy video streaming.
 

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THAT is truly an amazing video. The number of individual steps and files that need to be moved around is a bit overwhelming, but this is a great walk-through of that process. Many thanks for the time you put into doing that- twice!
I can’t wait to get home and log some rides now. (It quit raining) 👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
THAT is truly an amazing video. The number of individual steps and files that need to be moved around is a bit overwhelming, but this is a great walk-through of that process. Many thanks for the time you put into doing that- twice!
I can’t wait to get home and log some rides now. (It quit raining) 👍
It does look intense, certainly to me. It is much easier when you have a break in between the corrections and then riding for the logs. The big thing here is to make sure you get the same result I do. If you do, then you have mastered fuel corrections on the Indians!
 

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Has anyone else updated to powercore v3.0.0.4 and lost a majority of the tunable menus such as drive by wire, system, individual cylinder ect? I reverted back to v2.4.2.3 and got them back. But curious as to why dynojet removed access in the update or if the situation is unique to me?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Has anyone else updated to powercore v3.0.0.4 and lost a majority of the tunable menus such as drive by wire, system, individual cylinder ect? I reverted back to v2.4.2.3 and got them back. But curious as to why dynojet removed access in the update or if the situation is unique to me?


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I have not checked it. It must be beta, I have been using production to make sure I am compatible when I send tunes out. With that said, I will update this evening and check.
 

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The fallowing is the response I received from dynojet about the reduction of access in the update:

“Chris Kelly (Dynojet)
Jul 1, 2022, 11:52 AM PDT

Hi,
Thank you for writing.
Yes. We are reducing end user level permissions in future software revisions in order to be able to expand the product to a broader market.
Any tables that you can no longer access will need to be preconfigured by software users that have higher level permissions (i.e. contractual dealers, venders, and/or Dynojet tech support representatives).
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
Regards,
Powersports Technical Support
Dynojet Research, Inc.
Toll Free: (800) 992-4993”

So it appears they are purposely removing features in updates to force us to use dealers/venders to tune our bikes.


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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
The fallowing is the response I received from dynojet about the reduction of access in the update:

“Chris Kelly (Dynojet)
Jul 1, 2022, 11:52 AM PDT

Hi,
Thank you for writing.
Yes. We are reducing end user level permissions in future software revisions in order to be able to expand the product to a broader market.
Any tables that you can no longer access will need to be preconfigured by software users that have higher level permissions (i.e. contractual dealers, venders, and/or Dynojet tech support representatives).
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
Regards,
Powersports Technical Support
Dynojet Research, Inc.
Toll Free: (800) 992-4993”

So it appears they are purposely removing features in updates to force us to use dealers/venders to tune our bikes.


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It would not surprise me if they are being forced into this direction, i.e. EPA.
 

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True but if we are forced into the update it would make the primary point of the PV3 obsolete and no longer worth investing in. That being said I’m glad that you are flooding us with information. While we can still use it as most of it can’t be used on the updated version. I’m getting my bike perfect before they force me into using a “dealer/vender” to do the most basic of changes.

So once again thank you so very much for your time and knowledge


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
The fallowing is the response I received from dynojet about the reduction of access in the update:

“Chris Kelly (Dynojet)
Jul 1, 2022, 11:52 AM PDT

Hi,
Thank you for writing.
Yes. We are reducing end user level permissions in future software revisions in order to be able to expand the product to a broader market.
Any tables that you can no longer access will need to be preconfigured by software users that have higher level permissions (i.e. contractual dealers, venders, and/or Dynojet tech support representatives).
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
Regards,
Powersports Technical Support
Dynojet Research, Inc.
Toll Free: (800) 992-4993”

So it appears they are purposely removing features in updates to force us to use dealers/venders to tune our bikes.


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Right now, this only affects the beta and alpha users. In your Application Launcher under the Tool menu you will find at the bottom a radio button to select the Power Core build that will be loaded....either Beta or Release. Select the Release version of Power Core and you will have access to all the tables again.
 

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True but if we are forced into the update it would make the primary point of the PV3 obsolete and no longer worth investing in. That being said I’m glad that you are flooding us with information. While we can still use it as most of it can’t be used on the updated version. I’m getting my bike perfect before they force me into using a “dealer/vender” to do the most basic of changes.

So once again thank you so very much for your time and knowledge


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't update to the newer software. yep, Dynojet is basically going to slowly get out of the "real performance tuning" business. The Challenger ECU flash they offer is nothing more than the stock factory tune with the DBW tables changed and the speed limiter changed. Still the same crappy timing and fueling.
 

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Exactly so don’t update the software to beta/alpha get your bike dialed in before they no longer support the current release. And use ur PV3 as digital gauges after they make its tuning ability obsolete via forced update.


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Exactly so don’t update the software to beta/alpha get your bike dialed in before they no longer support the current release. And use ur PV3 as digital gauges after they make its tuning ability obsolete via forced update.


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This also tells me you most likely won’t see a PV3 for the Challenger if they are being forced to pull back due to EPA concerns
 

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What is this reduction of access going to do to those of us who just recently purchased the PV3, and don't even have my bike yet to start tuning on? I have gone into power core to make sure it is not set to auto update etc... i don't have the option of selecting which version to load (A, B or release) did a run thorough or craigs tutorial, my end result was very close to craigs final tune, with his equations it was a hell of a lot easier than doing Dodge HEMI'S,

And if they pull our access to the tables, we need what is the solution? I would hate purchasing a tool to do X then the MFG modifies it so it only w=does Y, and can no longer do the job it was bought to do
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
What is this reduction of access going to do to those of us who just recently purchased the PV3, and don't even have my bike yet to start tuning on? I have gone into power core to make sure it is not set to auto update etc... i don't have the option of selecting which version to load (A, B or release) did a run thorough or craigs tutorial, my end result was very close to craigs final tune, with his equations it was a hell of a lot easier than doing Dodge HEMI'S,

And if they pull our access to the tables, we need what is the solution? I would hate purchasing a tool to do X then the MFG modifies it so it only w=does Y, and can no longer do the job it was bought to do
It will not prevent you from flashing custom tunes with the PV3, which was the original intent of the device. I am sure there will be a path moving forward for those that want to tune their own bike. At this point, stick to the production release of 2.4.2 for now until we get more guidance from Dynojet.

BTW, if you did not get exactly what I got on the last run, then please check your Options menu in the Application Launcher and make sure your Pressure channel is setup for kPa and not the default of Inches of Mercury. If not set to kPa, you will end up with slight differences in the VE table.

With the Supreme Court's ruling last week in the West Virginia vs EPA case, things might relax a bit. That was a monumental ruling that got overshadowed by their other rulings. However it will have a huge impact on the extent of government regulations. Just have to wait and see.
 
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