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2022 Rogue
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107 Posts
Shout out to Craig B, the amount of info on your blog is amazing and my deepest thanks for the effort you have put into these bikes over the years, and your generosity to share your knowledge!
My scout rogue is on the way , and I’ll be putting in the zipper maxflow with RPW Accelerant pipes
Going to go with PV3 and tune with narrow bands first, then add the wide bands for WOT tuning, my question is,
Once the narrow band tuning is done can I remove the narrow bands, and use a plug/ simulator on the factory NB input connectors, slap the wide bands in with the wbcx, ( Rpw has 18mm bungs with reducer for the factory sensors) or should I add another bung and run both together ? And once done with WOT runs n tuning slap the narrow bands back in
 

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2022 Rogue
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It would be best to run them both together, however you can set your Target AFR out of closed-loop for tuning with the WB's and use 02 bypass plugs on the harness to keep from throwing codes. I do not know how good the adapters are for the 18 to 12mm bungs though (I have my doubts). The sensor needs to be in the exhaust flow. Good Dyno operators will use a o2 block that taps into the header with a small hole, but the difference with them is they have a pump that pulls the exhaust to the wideband sensors for an accurate reading.

You can certainly tune WOT with NB's, you just have to slowly roll the throttle open over a course of 1 or 2 seconds instead of slamming it wide open all at once. This give the ECU time to correct the fuel. Once you are done, just add 3 to 5% to the higher RPM/Load areas and call it a day. You will be pretty darn accurate when all is said and done.
Thanks for the insight! Once all is done I’ll have to find a dyno to see what it does ( yep I’m trying to exceed what zipper shows on their website ) I know you have done a lot of work with some of the forum members running the maxflow, I’ll definitely provide anything new I learn to the group! The adapter will put the sensor 5/32” farther from center of pipe, I’ll have to see where the sensor tip ends up in the pipe once I’ve got the bike lol
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2022 Rogue
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What is this reduction of access going to do to those of us who just recently purchased the PV3, and don't even have my bike yet to start tuning on? I have gone into power core to make sure it is not set to auto update etc... i don't have the option of selecting which version to load (A, B or release) did a run thorough or craigs tutorial, my end result was very close to craigs final tune, with his equations it was a hell of a lot easier than doing Dodge HEMI'S,

And if they pull our access to the tables, we need what is the solution? I would hate purchasing a tool to do X then the MFG modifies it so it only w=does Y, and can no longer do the job it was bought to do
 

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2022 Rogue
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107 Posts
Help! After doing to logs and updates trying to open my tune for a third update and get a message stating I don’t have required license to open the tune file ???
 

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2022 Rogue
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107 Posts
Yeah I was out in the sticks, had to use my phone for a hotspot , and it worked just fine !! Can’t thank you enough for your equations and knowledge, significant changes in normal op range on the 22 scout, adding fuel in almost all ve cells ,
 

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2022 Rogue
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Another KUDO to Craig B! We had discussions on o2 bung adapters prior to arrival of my bike, was concerned the o2 sensor would not get good flow and give less than accurate readings. So in my first few logs and tune corrections I wasn’t seeing what I was expecting to see, some fairly large fuel corrections. So I pulled my new exhaust, cut down the O2 bungs, and reinstalled with sensors MUCH more in the exhaust flow,
First log and correction was much more in line with expectations !
LESSON FOR ALL, if using aftermarket exhaust make damn sure the O2 sensor is still in the exhaust flow ! Screw them in and see where the sensor sits before installing the exhaust !
( mine were in the pipe, but mostly in a pocket inside bung reducer and not getting adequate flow )
 

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2022 Rogue
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107 Posts
Compare of first and second pass with expanded AFR, as hard as I tried to hit all the cells, still missed big chunks between various rpm bands, or loads a little smoothing and set up for log set 3. I also create an identical tune with factory afr settings to ride on if not running logs for tuning the expanded afr, don’t want to forget I’ve got expanded afr tune in it and crack throttle to wot when just riding around lol
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Thanks Craig! I’m trying to get this as smooth as possible with my exhaust and factory intake before the zipper maxflow arrives, my IPW comps are almost there as well, I know there will be a lot of logs and tweaks for the zipper
 

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Got in another run with expanded AFR table, hit a bunch of cells i missed the other day, in the 6500-7500 range still adding fuel in those cells, while cells i did hit the other day and today were adjusting in the 0-4.5% range, one or 2 more log runs and I'm ready to start it all over, (my intake has shipped)!! ill post up screen shots after my next log run, but damn when compared to stock there have been massive changes to the fueling, Can't believe the factory tune is that far off, especially in the high load and upper rpm ranges, 5-20% with stock intake!
 

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Question


Since we don’t have the capability to zero LTFT’s
( I am accustomed to zeroing them after each adjustment on my dodge) would it be beneficial to disconnect battery periodically between logs and adjustments? I believe this will ups reset the trims.

on a separate note

while out logging today i had my PV3 set up on the fuel trim page, and i witnessed Rear STFT changing as i rode, but rear LTFT never moved from 0, went back to old logs and sure enough when i graph only LTFT it has NEVER recorded anything, is that normal on the scouts? can't believe i just noticed this!
 

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2022 Rogue
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You do have the ability to zero the LTFT's...everytime you flash a tune, the LTFT's are zero'd out. This is why you do not see the LTFT's coming into play.

It is normal not to see the LTFT's come into play if your tune is converging well. The way the LTFT's work is they are a moving average of the STFT's. It takes about 100 miles or so just to get them to move and if the STFT's are very good, they will not move at all.

What you cannot zero out is the STFT's as they are the real time fuel correction that the ECU has to apply to get the AFR to a 14.7:1 ratio. The LTFT's are used as a place holder or starting point of fuel that has been learned over time that is absolutely needed to correct for AFR at that particular operating cell. By having this LTFT, the STFT's do not have to provide as much correction to hit the AFR. Or a better way is the LTFT's provide a faster resolution to correcting the fuel then if the ECU had to hunt each time with just the STFT's.
Thanks Craig! you are making the Indians fly one amateur at a time!
 

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Latest changes in normal operating range, now that i am waiting longer after starting to start my logs, (yep i was logging too soon and it was screwing up my data) i now wait at least 10 min before I log, once again thank you Craig for figuring that out, my cylinder balance is coming in, and the Normal range VE is a few logs from done.
now the cylinder balance via IPW comp is finally getting smaller instead of constantly being all kinds of massive changes, and the VE tables changes are as well, almost done with normal range, then back to expanded AFR, for a few logs to see if my bad data also corrupted the expanded AFR.
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For those with Scouts, how do you like to set your Drive By Wire settings? I haven’t started messing with it yet, but the stock settings (for the Scout Bobber 60 at least) seem very conservative, similar to the touring modes on the bigger bikes. At 10% twist, it’s only putting out 2% torque. At 25% - 6.9% torque, and at 50% still only 18.5% torque. Even at 90% it’s only up to 66% torque. The 3rd and 4th gear settings are set even lower.
I haven’t touched my DBW settings yet, I can say when I tuned my dodge I learned very fast you can make your ride miserable to drive if you get to aggressive, it doesn’t actually do anything for torque or power just makes the grip sensitive and can easily become too sensitive
 

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another set of screenshots, expanded AFR tuning today, normal op range really coming in now and I'm getting the high load areas dialed in bit by bit, added a screenshot of what my VE table currently looks like as well have a little more work to do in the 55kpa - 95 kpa range but progressing nicely


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Took a nice ride through the winding steep roads through wildcat canyon today, focused on the very low RPM Normal op range up to 55 -60 KPA, with a few opportunities to get into higher rpm, love how this is coming yes, I'm picky as hell, and could smooth the VE table between hard data points when I miss them, but I like this and the challenge of hitting specific cells lmao,,, Intake will go on in the next few days, and I get to start again (y)
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first shot at air flow through throttle body massive !! I have to say for any who say no tune needed for just an exhaust swap,,,, NOT TRUE!!! this RPW moves some air !


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