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HarleyD.... gotta be lonely at the top, and with so many underlings shooting arrows at ya :eek:
 

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Had the Ultra back to the dealership twice because of the high speed death wobble. First time was unexpected, second was to test the dealerships "repair", no third test as experiencing the death wobble twice in one lifetime - and surviving - was quite enough.. High speed sweeping curves were kept at 60mph.. Roadmaster would do the same ones as fast as I wanted to go (80+mph).. Kept the Ultra for a long while, next to the RM, before I could let it go.. Still miss it, but with the RM in the stable, the Ultra would just be for looking at and putt putting in the hoods..

If new Harley Tours still do the death wobble, then the Harley brand has already survived longer than it should have..
 

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As a side note, confirming what BaggerJay said, every person I have met in person on the road with an Indian cruiser or bagger came from a HD or a Victory. No one came from BMW or Honda. Zero!
Guess we haven't met yet -- I had been riding Hondas for 33 years when I traded up to an Indian 3 years ago.
Had this one for 15 years
IMG_0492.JPG

Before trading in for this
IMG_0298.JPG

Had expected to keep it a long time also, but made the mistake of test riding a Challenger.................
 

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Founding member / aka Husky Davidson. 10/09/14
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Had the Ultra back to the dealership twice because of the high speed death wobble. First time was unexpected, second was to test the dealerships "repair", no third test as experiencing the death wobble twice in one lifetime - and surviving - was quite enough.. High speed sweeping curves were kept at 60mph.. Roadmaster would do the same ones as fast as I wanted to go (80+mph).. Kept the Ultra for a long while, next to the RM, before I could let it go.. Still miss it, but with the RM in the stable, the Ultra would just be for looking at and putt putting in the hoods..

If new Harley Tours still do the death wobble, then the Harley brand has already survived longer than it should have..
What year Harley?
I’ve not heard of that with a tour frame.
First thought to mind is the head bearing adjustment. A incompetent adjustment..
 

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No matter what I think competition is a good thing for the consumer. Not bashing anyone's choice of rides here and as long as the ribbing is good natured there's no-harm no-foul. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion and it's very American to have the right to choose whatever brand and model you like. I think the Challenger Challenge is a great marketing idea which lets the rider decide. It's a ballsy move that other motorcycle makers so far haven't made.
 

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Founding member / aka Husky Davidson. 10/09/14
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No matter what I think competition is a good thing for the consumer. Not bashing anyone's choice of rides here and as long as the ribbing is good natured there's no-harm no-foul. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion and it's very American to have the right to choose whatever brand and model you like. I think the Challenger Challenge is a great marketing idea which lets the rider decide. It's a ballsy move that other motorcycle makers so far haven't made.
If the competition comes up with a idea that will actually Improve your product and doesn’t patent it, you will use it. It’s a no brainer.
The Challenger is going a completely different direction then a RoadGliide.
For me with a Motor-Cycle, it’s all about the character of the motor..
HD can upgrade its peripheral systems surrounding the motor.. But if it changes the basic architecture of the motor, it’s no longer a Harley.
If I liked a V-Rod motor for cruising I would had bought one. However the V-Rod motor was built to compete with Sportbikes in Harleys Cruiser way, (The frame).
Harleys succes is because of it he Character of it’s motor.. Not just in the way is sounds, but the way the powertrain is built.. The three separate subassemblies allows for relatively easy modifications to each..
The latest trend or fad as it were, Is the power baggers..
The Challengers architecture is that of a metric bike, and would be far more expensive and labor intensive for modifications...
This is the same issue that you have with all import bikes. Indian may not be “Imported”, but it shares the same pitfalls.
 

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What year Harley?
I’ve not heard of that with a tour frame.
First thought to mind is the head bearing adjustment. A incompetent adjustment..
It's very common. Google" bagger wobble" and see what comes up. Mine does it with Ohlins suspension and my friends 2019 did it, thats why he traded it in for a Challenger. It feels like the frame flexes when you ride it hard through fast sweepers. It's not the steering head, it's the shitty design of the rubber mounted swingarm. There are a few companies making braces to stiffen up the chassis. It's my biggest gripe with my bike, the bike has been awesome, except for the handling. I had to slow down coming home through West Virginia and Virginia it got so bad.
 

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What year Harley?
I’ve not heard of that with a tour frame.
First thought to mind is the head bearing adjustment. A incompetent adjustment..
Head shake/death wobble was a very common issue when twinkies came out and was the prime driver for the rushmore update. HD did not listen to there civillian customers. It took leo's complaints for them to move on it. Now they just swim because of the god awful swingarm isolation mounts. That also help induce bearing head shock now days because the swim unloads the head bearings in a lateral movement. I'm so glad my M8 POS King is gone and has been scrapped out. The Wing is such a good bike and a Challenger will be it's stable mate when out of consumer beta... Funny as I was typing this post wife came in and asked if I thought I would be buying the Challenger this summer with more HD T-Shirts for the grease rag barrel..... :)
 

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Founding member / aka Husky Davidson. 10/09/14
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It's very common. Google" bagger wobble" and see what comes up. Mine does it with Ohlins suspension and my friends 2019 did it, thats why he traded it in for a Challenger. It feels like the frame flexes when you ride it hard through fast sweepers. It's not the steering head, it's the shitty design of the rubber mounted swingarm. There are a few companies making braces to stiffen up the chassis. It's my biggest gripe with my bike, the bike has been awesome, except for the handling. I had to slow down coming home through West Virginia and Virginia it got so bad.
I’ve owned three tour framed bikes starting in 2001.. my latest is a ‘14.. You must ride much faster and harder then I.
I’ve never experienced that or heard of it.. I’m not saying it’s not a issue.
But I’ve put over 100,000 miles on the three bikes.. and never experienced anything close to that..
My ‘14 has far more planted feel then the earlier bikes.

I guess Harley will be addressing the guys that want to ride them like canyon carvers in 2021.
Rumor is the frame will be a mono shock and a upside down front fork arraignment.
 

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It's very common. Google" bagger wobble" and see what comes up. Mine does it with Ohlins suspension and my friends 2019 did it, thats why he traded it in for a Challenger. It feels like the frame flexes when you ride it hard through fast sweepers. It's not the steering head, it's the shitty design of the rubber mounted swingarm. There are a few companies making braces to stiffen up the chassis. It's my biggest gripe with my bike, the bike has been awesome, except for the handling. I had to slow down coming home through West Virginia and Virginia it got so bad.
I haven’t read anything about the Harley Death Wobble since the Rushmore models were introduced. I ride my bikes pretty hard through long sweepers and I’ve never experienced any wobble.


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Everyone needs to remember 1 simple thing: the Challenger is still a V Twin. It shares much more of the power and vibration characteristic of its air cooled American made brothers than the 6 cylinder bagger/touring bikes that are being brought up. When the "metric" factor keeps being brought up, there is a vast distinction between the European V Twins and the Japanese ones. The platform of the frame and engine is more akin to a Ducati or KTM. Component quality and design are similar. The difference the way I see it is that Indian increased radically the cubic inches while in reading flywheel weight, moving the cam timing to the torque side, and sticking to a 60 vs 75 or 90 degree motor gives it a slower rev, more classic American look, and a little more vibration which the Traditionalists are used to experiencing. I'm not sure why any other manufacturers haven't built a true 45 degree VTwin, but there must be a good reason. If it is superior, someone would be copying it. If that was the criteria for the sound and feel of a Harley, then other manufacturers would be jumping on the 45 degree train. Honda, Kaw., Yamaha, Suzuki have all produced V Twins that never really caught fire for many reasons, but the primary ones were the lack of quality looking components, being a part of an exclusive ownership groups and the overall finish of the motorcycle. Harleys were mostly steel construction vs. Japanese plastic.
 

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I haven’t read anything about the Harley Death Wobble since the Rushmore models were introduced. I ride my bikes pretty hard through long sweepers and I’ve never experienced any wobble.


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It's now known as the Harley swim. The tank slapper head shake and death wobble were more or less corrected with the Rushmore update. And they have been quietly trying to update the swingarm isolation mounts to clear up the swim. Ohlins, Legends and other shocks help a bit more. But the fact remains the swingarm itself is pretty much junk. Also the rear subframe needs to be checked pretty often to make sure the tq on the bolts is correct. If the tq is not correct a passenger will swear the bike is breaking apart...
 

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I have an Indian Springfield, my two buddies I ride with have a 2015 street glide and a 2015 road glide, 103 ci with stage 2 set up. All three of us have done 4 long rides together. A 10, 5, and two 3 day rides for a total of about 10k miles. I have never heard or seen these guys have any issues with their bikes. We hit several sweepers at 75-85 miles per hour. All 3 were rock solid. @psyshack must have purchased a bad bike or you did a modification that wasn’t correct.
 

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I have an Indian Springfield, my two buddies I ride with have a 2015 street glide and a 2015 road glide, 103 ci with stage 2 set up. All three of us have done 4 long rides together. A 10, 5, and two 3 day rides for a total of about 10k miles. I have never heard or seen these guys have any issues with their bikes. We hit several sweepers at 75-85 miles per hour. All 3 were rock solid. @psyshack must have purchased a bad bike or you did a modification that wasn’t correct.
From what I understand the Harley wobble was looked into when they redesigned the frame in 2009 and also added a fourth mounting point to the engine. Before that there was a number of aftermarket items available to help fix the problem.

Then the Rushmore upgrade refined the bikes even more.

I owned a pre-2009 Harley for 12 years and the wobble wasn’t an issue for me though I knew about the problem.

I rode my Harley not only on short rides but also from Los Angeles to Sturgis a couple times and from Los Angeles to Milwaukee.


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I have an Indian Springfield, my two buddies I ride with have a 2015 street glide and a 2015 road glide, 103 ci with stage 2 set up. All three of us have done 4 long rides together. A 10, 5, and two 3 day rides for a total of about 10k miles. I have never heard or seen these guys have any issues with their bikes. We hit several sweepers at 75-85 miles per hour. All 3 were rock solid. @psyshack must have purchased a bad bike or you did a modification that wasn’t correct.
Your not following along. The Rushmore update took care of the death wobble and resulting head shake in 2014. The swim is a ongoing issue because of the rubber isolation mounts that HD use to try and isolate the swingarm from the main frame. And somehow improve the ride and dampen vibrations. Which allows the swingarm to move around indepent of the main frame. More times than not you will not feel swim at 75-90 mph. If you do replace the isolation mounts. If you want it gone altogether you have to retrofit with bearings/hard mounts. Swim generally rares it's stupid head above 90 mph as the HD swingarm isolation mounts become ineffective with rear suspension movement, frame vibrations and load cause a harmonic wave sets up. And the bike feels like the back bone of the frame is broken. I corrected my swim issue by retrofitting my own mounts, bearings, seals and doing it like a proper motorcycle. After that mod it was just there pig iron flex frame and swingarm at play. Just more of there Victorian Engineering. Or as one member calls it,,,,, > Heritage.
 

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I have an Indian Springfield, my two buddies I ride with have a 2015 street glide and a 2015 road glide, 103 ci with stage 2 set up. All three of us have done 4 long rides together. A 10, 5, and two 3 day rides for a total of about 10k miles. I have never heard or seen these guys have any issues with their bikes. We hit several sweepers at 75-85 miles per hour. All 3 were rock solid. @psyshack must have purchased a bad bike or you did a modification that wasn’t correct.
Now go back through those sweepers at 100mph and hit a bump and let me know what you feel at 80 mph it's manageable, but it will still do it if you hit a bump. My friends and I came from sport bikes, we ride pretty hard. If you were to see the rear tire on my bike I was able to use the whole thing in Tennessee last summer. In spite of what Cadillac tries to spew on here, a Harley will do 100mph all day long. But I almost shit my pants that day! LOL
The rushmore frame was not all new, they only changed the steering head. This is why I say My bike has been awesome, but I will not buy another until they change the frame.
 

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Your not following along. The Rushmore update took care of the death wobble and resulting head shake in 2014. The swim is a ongoing issue because of the rubber isolation mounts that HD use to try and isolate the swingarm from the main frame. And somehow improve the ride and dampen vibrations. Which allows the swingarm to move around indepent of the main frame. More times than not you will not feel swim at 75-90 mph. If you do replace the isolation mounts. If you want it gone altogether you have to retrofit with bearings/hard mounts. Swim generally rares it's stupid head above 90 mph as the HD swingarm isolation mounts become ineffective with rear suspension movement, frame vibrations and load cause a harmonic wave sets up. And the bike feels like the back bone of the frame is broken. I corrected my swim issue by retrofitting my own mounts, bearings, seals and doing it like a proper motorcycle. After that mod it was just there pig iron flex frame and swingarm at play. Just more of there Victorian Engineering. Or as one member calls it,,,,, > Heritage.
Exactly! Now what did you use for swingarm bearings?
 
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