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I work at a bike destination on weekends here in the Phoenix area.. It’s probably the hottest spot here, so I see a lot of bikes every weekend. (Hundreds)...
I’ve seen 2 Challengers in the last 3 weeks..
That’s a lot since I didn’t see a Chief for months after they came out..
I think the Challenger will be Indians best seller..
But I doubt it will be because people don’t like the RoadGlide.. no doubt there will be some defectors, but Harley is a different class of bike. Different than any other.
 

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Not much risk for IM. There’s no way the RG is going to compete - power, suspension, handling, brakes...all go in favor of the Challenger. After that, there’s not much left for the RG to win.
Except for fit, finish and customization.
Indians seem to be a snap together product, where as HD’s seem to be hand built.
 

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Except for fit, finish and customization.
Indians seem to be a snap together product, where as HD’s seem to be hand built.
Disagree. Customization - sure, but what do you expect from a company that is 7 years old (in its current incarnation) vs. one that is 100 years old? Regarding fit and finish, I can’t compare the Challenger and Road Glide, but prior to my Chieftan purchase I took a look at a SGS and the Chieftan was/is heads above Harley in fit and finish IMHO.
 

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Except for fit, finish and customization.
Indians seem to be a snap together product, where as HD’s seem to be hand built.
Well, we all know they are assembled exactly the same way.
HD does a great job on paint, but they gip ya on little stuff.... like cheap aluminum lower forks, plain black controls, where my Chieftain was stock with what HD would charge $1500 for.

I think Indian is doing a good job. All the major reviewers are saying it is equal or above Harley.

Have you sat on HD's 500cc bike? What a piece of junk. Poor design. I hope if Indian goes with a little bike they maintain the quality.

Personally, I'd love to see a 650 twin to compete with Triumph and Royal Enfield. That is a hot market.
 

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Disagree. Customization - sure, but what do you expect from a company that is 7 years old (in its current incarnation) vs. one that is 100 years old? Regarding fit and finish, I can’t compare the Challenger and Road Glide, but prior to my Chieftan purchase I took a look at a SGS and the Chieftan was/is heads above Harley in fit and finish IMHO.
One thing I’ve got to give the Challenger..
It’s original.
It’s the first full sized fixed fairing cruiser with a large cube 60 degree twin..
The power delivery and characteristics is that of a Scout or V-Rod.
The bike is fast because of that. It’s gonna sell.
I don’t believe it’s a substitute for visceral experience of a RoadGlide.
 

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Harley has answered with a 131 cube kit.
and it will smoke a Challenger.
The 131 is not the answer. You have to buy it on tip of the price of the motorcycle, and it's not legal for sale in California. They will come out with a new engine, maybe the one for the Pan America will be it? The outdated suspension and frame have to go, and this attitude that you pay a premium for the bike then spend 5000 dollars to make the bike ride able has to change if they want younger riders to get on board with the brand.
HD has to be worried, Harley guys are looking, and switching to this bike, that's never happend before. I currently have a street glide and I'm going to buy one of these once the bugs are out. My buddy already traded his 2019 Street Glide in.
 

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The 131 is not the answer. You have to buy it on tip of the price of the motorcycle, and it's not legal for sale in California. They will come out with a new engine, maybe the one for the Pan America will be it? The outdated suspension and frame have to go, and this attitude that you pay a premium for the bike then spend 5000 dollars to make the bike ride able has to change if they want younger riders to get on board with the brand.
HD has to be worried, Harley guys are looking, and switching to this bike, that's never happend before. I currently have a street glide and I'm going to buy one of these once the bugs are out. My buddy already traded his 2019 Street Glide in.
My understanding is that HD is coming out with a new tour frame and engine for 2021.
 

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Harley has answered with a 131 cube kit.
and it will smoke a Challenger.
The 131 reeks of desperation. I have nothing against HD. In fact I will have one in my garage at some point, but it’s something that appeals to the Harley faithful only. I would almost guarantee that someone who is up in the air between the Challenger and RG isn’t thinking “oh, I will get the RG and then dump an additional 7k so it will be as fast as the Challenger.” I mean, HD would have served themselves well by putting the 131 in the mid-year CVO that was just announced. At least then you could justify the bend-over that HD is giving you at 40k.
 

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Harley has answered with a 131 cube kit.
and it will smoke a Challenger.
At what cost? And does not meet CA emission standards. I think we need to compare stock off the show room floor. I would consider an HD if I could get it to fit me without making a lot of modifications. At 6’8 with 38” inseam the HD didn’t fit. If a dealership would be willing to make it fit and charge the same price I would consider. The only mod‘s I had to make on my Springfield was an extended reach seat which they swapped out for nothing and the bars which they swapped out for nothing.
 

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My understanding is that HD is coming out with a new tour frame and engine for 2021.
A new frame for the tour line has been expected ever since the soft tails came out. a new motor is not needed because no one I have ever met felt that any of the M8 models is under powered, face it large twins just aren't under powered for any brand. what is known motor wise is HD has the new water cooled motor showing up in Adventure and Street Fighter formats, this motor has for sizes from 500, 750, 975, and 1250, I believe. What I would love to see is them use this motor to also enter the sport tour category, give me a V-twin alternative to my R1250RT...
 

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A new frame for the tour line has been expected ever since the soft tails came out. a new motor is not needed because no one I have ever met felt that any of the M8 models is under powered, face it large twins just aren't under powered for any brand. what is known motor wise is HD has the new water cooled motor showing up in Adventure and Street Fighter formats, this motor has for sizes from 500, 750, 975, and 1250, I believe. What I would love to see is them use this motor to also enter the sport tour category, give me a V-twin alternative to my R1250RT...
HD recently patented a push rod head design that will allow the big twins rev to 7000 RPMs..
It’s only rumor but in order to use the head it would require a new bottom end case. Hence thoughts are that there will be a new engine.
As far as the capability of the M8, last night I met a fellow that owned 3 RoadGlides.. from 140hp to 200hp, all naturally aspirated.
 

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HD recently patented a push rod head design that will allow the big twins rev to 7000 RPMs..
It’s only rumor but in order to use the head it would require a new bottom end case. Hence thoughts are that there will be a new engine.
As far as the capability of the M8, last night I met a fellow that owned 3 RoadGlides.. from 140hp to 200hp, all naturally aspirated.
‘That’s crazy, having that much hp.
 

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Before saying what Im going to say know that I prefer Indian over Harley’s design.

Polaris makes Indian along with other offerings while Harley mainly only does one thing, make motorcycles. If Harley were to put all their resources and history behind making a better motorcycle they have the capability of out doing Indian. I think the only thing that has been holding them back is the diehard old school Harley owners.

Now that the Challenger has opened the door for a high tech water cooled bike Harley could out engineer/perform Indian. The V-Rod water cooled engine was a great engine and they released that in the early 2000s. It didn’t sell mainly because it was too modern for most Harley owners at the time.

The Harley V-Rod engine was only 69 cubic inches and it was rated at 115 HP.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Before saying what Im going to say know that I prefer Indian over Harley’s design.

Polaris makes Indian along with other offerings while Harley mainly only does one thing, make motorcycles. If Harley were to put all their resources and history behind making a better motorcycle they have the capability of out doing Indian. I think the only thing that has been holding them back is the diehard old school Harley owners.

Now that the Challenger has opened the door for a high tech water cooled bike Harley could out engineer/perform Indian. The V-Rod water cooled engine was a great engine and they released that in the early 2000s.


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I think you hit on a major point...... diehard, basically not willing to change or be flexible. I’m sure this new water cooled engine will appear in other bikes that Polaris/Indian will be coming out with in the future. I think some guys focus too much on the name and not the product. To each its own I guess.
 
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