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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently bought a used 2016 RM with 18K miles. Previous owner installed freedom duals and a voodoo air cleaner. No record of any change to the ECU.
Local Indian dealership put it on the dyno and said it was running a little lean, which makes sense.
Had them install a Dynojet Power vision 3 and perform a tune on their in-house dynometer. Here are some observations.
Ride home from the dealership.... exhaust note was different and idle was not so good. Couldn't really evaluate a 20 mile ride. And it was already 100+ deg outside. Yuck.

Charts before/after: HP 77 at 4640 RPM/ 84 at 4650 RPM Torque 103 at 3170 RPM/ 109 at 3440 RPM.

Went out Saturday early and rode 110 miles. Temps 80-95. Some 6% grades up and down the mountains around here. All 70-75 MPH highway riding.
Idle settled down and exhaust note seemed to be the same as before.
Clatter that was present before at light throttle 2000-2500 RPM (yes it's a clacker) not as pronounced, but still there. Seems like it extends to higher RPM now.
Throttle response above 2500 RPM pretty impressive. Definitively gets on the cam and has much better passing power.
Seems like it is running a little hotter, although I checked oil temp when back home it was 200 deg which IMHO is fine.

One characteristic that I've noticed is there seems to be a "lag", for better choice of a word, that happens when running up through the gears. Almost like slop in the drivetrain. I don't know if this is related to the tune, but it wasn't as pronounced before. Drive belt tension? I don't know about this one.

MPG per ride command: 40.7 which is about the same as before.

Overall, I am pretty satisfied with the outcome. The purpose of this posting is simply to share information. I'm an old Harley guy that's used to tuning carbs and ignition, so this ECU tuning stuff is new. And there are sooooo many articles on this fine website about PV3 tunes, clatter, engine heat etc. Your comments are welcome. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Did another 100 miles yesterday. 2 concerns come to mind.
1. There is a definite "lag" in the throttle response which wasn't there before the tune. I checked belt tension - it is fine.
2. No objective way to tell but it seems like the motor is running hotter than before. I can feel it on my right leg. Still pretty warm here and the lower vents are in the same position as before.
So it looks like I take it back to the dealership and hope they have the competency to set it correctly. I would like to hear from the community about the throttle lag and the heat concerns. Thanks.
 

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Yeah they can absolutely tune you a better throttle response. Don’t settle for that. Also ask them what afr they’re chasing when cruising down the road and what afr its chasing under wide open throttle.
 

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Did another 100 miles yesterday. 2 concerns come to mind.
1. There is a definite "lag" in the throttle response which wasn't there before the tune. I checked belt tension - it is fine.
This should be tuned out as well as custom Drive By Wire settings.
2. No objective way to tell but it seems like the motor is running hotter than before. I can feel it on my right leg. Still pretty warm here and the lower vents are in the same position as before.
So it looks like I take it back to the dealership and hope they have the competency to set it correctly. I would like to hear from the community about the throttle lag and the heat concerns. Thanks.
I imagine they kept the bike in closed-loop operation of 14.7:1 at idle through cruise. This is proper in my opinion since we use our bikes for touring and not bar hopping. We are sitting on top of the rear cylinder and at the ambient temperatures you have (I have the same here in Tucson) you will feel the heat from the engine. Now, if the ECU is continuously hunting AFR, it will swing way lean/rich/lean/rich as it averages 14.7 AFR. This is a problem and one that I correct when tuning.

But, they might have only touched the tune at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) and not much for the operating range if they kept it in closed-loop. This results in a bike that is not tuned for the 95%+ operating it will see.

The numbers you post are very good for a stage 1 setup, especially for one with true dual exhaust. I am assuming SAE CF and not STD, though the numbers tend to point to the latter. The chart would be helpful if you can post it.

So ask them some questions.
Did they tuning the complete operating range (load versus RPM at all cells)?
Did they keep it in closed-loop operation?
Did they adjust the Drive By Wire settings?
How do they measure the AFR? Sniffer or o2 block?

Finally, you can certainly record some logs and send them to me. I can tell pretty much from them how your tune is behaving.
 

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You have a tuner hook it up where you can easily see it. Now find the screen with the temp and then go for a ride. and see where your temps are running. mine never go over 300F.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks, Craig. I will use your comments to query the guys over at dealership here in Scottsdale and report back to this community when I have results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Got the bike back yesterday. Tech said he "richened the front cylinder up due a slight hesitation at low RPM". Temperature readings were "within normal range".
In answer to CraigB's questions above, the tech gave the following responses:

Did they tuning the complete operating range (load versus RPM at all cells)?
*Yes. Created VE tables for both cylinders from scratch. Created injector pulse width tables front and rear independently.
Did they keep it in closed-loop operation?
*Closed loop is active
Did they adjust the Drive By Wire settings?
*Settings not changed (no need to) during tuning process.
How do they measure the AFR? Sniffer or o2 block?
*AF measured by O2 sensors on each cylinder.
* HP measurement is SAE not standard.


Motor runs same as before.... if there is a difference, I cannot tell in terms of performance, heat, idle, throttle lag. One thing I did notice is the clattering seems more pronounced and at greater RPM range. In that regard, it is disappointing to have a machine like this that makes so much noise at light throttle between 2000 -3500 RPM. Guess I'll put on some ear plugs and just enjoy the ride.
Thanks to all for responses, in particular to Craig B.
 

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I honestly think that you would have had better luck going with a fuel moto PV3 and their free tune updates than going to the dealer. The reason I say this is because "most" dealers that have dynos, don't know what they are doing. FM and CraigB do know what they are doing. If you took it back with a problem then the dealer should have made it right.

I had an issue one time with a tune due to Polaris needing to update the DBW and getting a code because of it. Contacted FM/CraigB and within an hour had a fix and the bike ran great.

When dealing with dyno operators you really have to do your homework because there are a lot that don't know what they are doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes I have similar stories from others who had their bikes/cars dynotuned with poor results, or even damage to the vehicle on the rack. I'll have to weigh options and decide next steps. It's ridiculous to me to spend this kind of money on a top-flight bike and have to deal with the clatter and quality control issues. Thanks for the input.
 
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