Indian Motorcycle Forum banner
  • Hey everyone! Enter your ride HERE to be a part of MAY's Ride of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
EDIT SEPTEMBER 25, 2020: The issue has come back and I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with the circuit breaker etc. Something is getting wet when I've washed/sprayed the bike with water and causing a short which persists until the bike has dried out which takes 7-10 days.... See my additional post #25 in this thread.


EDIT June 12, 2020: Hi guys, the problem I had has now been solved. You can skip to my post #22 for details of the resolution - a bad 68-OHM resistor inside the fuse block. I know I tend to write a lot so for those not interested in the "walls of text" and many steps and suggestions to try to diagnose this just skip ahead to post #22. There is still hopefully some value to others in this thread if they have a similar problem.

Original post continues below.

*
Hi all,

My bobber died here at the house about 30 seconds after starting perfectly and idling. I was standing next to it and it literally turned off, instrument cluster went blank, no lights, no horn, no fuel pump relay sound, just DOA.

I got it brand new early last December (2019) and have only a little over 1,000 miles on it. Still under warranty. I keep it on a battery tender, under a very heavy duty premium bike cover and it doesn't get rained on or wet. This is the first mechanical issue of any kind I've had with it.

The battery shows 12.8V with my ohmmeter. The instrument cluster gauge is totally blank, no lights, run/stop switch does nothing and when they key is in the "on" position I can distinctly hear and feel the self-resetting fuse/breaker marked CHASSIS seemingly set and re-set about every 3 seconds or so. With the ohmmeter on the main battery terminals the voltage seems to drop about .15 volts at each of the fuse re-set intervals and then come back up. There is no smell of anything burning nor do any wires seem to get warm that I can tell.

The bike is stock other than replacement of the front and rear turn signals with LED ones about 600 miles ago. All wiring in and around the battery and to the chassis ground are pristine, clean and tight.

While its under warranty, it will be a hassle to get it on a flatbed and trailer it up 30 miles each way to the dealer + whatever down time there is.

Any suggestions on things I can check on my own first?

Any help is really appreciated!
 

·
German rider
Joined
·
723 Posts
When I would hear the Circuit Breaker working, then I would not try to start or even turn Ignition on for further tests.
Its time for a tech with Wiring Diagram and a Voltmeter.. speaking: Dealer.
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
1,919 Posts
First of all check that your battery cables are tight.
Your battery will still read as good when the cables are loose.
The "clicking" sound is probably due to the fuel pump getting inadequate voltage due to the loose cables.

The loose battery cables are quite common on Scouts. I tell Scout owners to get the appropriate size "Star Washers" to insure that the battery bolts don't back out while riding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
438 Posts
First of all check that your battery cables are tight.
Your battery will still read as good when the cables are loose.
The "clicking" sound is probably due to the fuel pump getting inadequate voltage due to the loose cables.

The loose battery cables are quite common on Scouts. I tell Scout owners to get the appropriate size "Star Washers" to insure that the battery bolts don't back out while riding.
I agree. I had the same issue and upon checking my cables , they were loose. Snuggled them down real good, problem fixed .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
First of all check that your battery cables are tight.
Your battery will still read as good when the cables are loose.
The "clicking" sound is probably due to the fuel pump getting inadequate voltage due to the loose cables.

The loose battery cables are quite common on Scouts. I tell Scout owners to get the appropriate size "Star Washers" to insure that the battery bolts don't back out while riding.
My 20’ bobber has 500 miles on it. When I did a light kit, Intake, and ejk tuner all at the same time I found bother battery connections very loose from factory and the biggest one was the coil next to the battery. The nut was being held on by literally a single thread.

It certainly sounds like your not getting power or ground connection to some thing. Being so new, it’s something dumb. I’d even look at the connections behind the ignition key cylinder as well. I knocked one of those loose when running wires and made a note to myself about them at that time.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Try completely disconnecting the negative battery terminal. Give it a minute or so then reconnect it and see if you get a different result. Computer might just need to completely cycle power. Had a similar issue on my 19 Chieftain couple weeks ago with only a couple hundred miles on it.
-Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
Loose battery cables are a big problem on the Scout. The screw is really short so only a few threads engage. Also the terminal is a soft metal. Be sure to get them tight but not stripped out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
All, as I said in the original post, the battery wires, the ground to chassis etc are all super clean and tight. I did notice last night in the dark that the moment I cycle the key to the On position, there is for a millisecond a barely visible pulse of light on the front and rear turn signal leds and license plate light and then the chassis fuse/circuit breaker starts to cycle - so I think something is shorting.

i disconnected the front and rear LEDs last night to rule those out - the fuse/circuit continues with key in on position and the instrument cluster remains dead as well as headlamp and fuel pump etc, no turnover of starter. In the first 150 miles I did change the headlamp to the LED one used on the FTR1200. Perhaps some of the cabling in and around there is loose or disconnected.

I also completely disconnected the battery cables and let it sit for 15 minutes to see if the ECU could “re-set” - no joy.

When I get home from work tonight will pull off the fuel tank, pull off the headlamp bezel and instrument cluster as well as the ignition key harness and look for any shorts or disconnects. Will post an update later on same.

As some have suggested it’s probably something simple and just disconnected or shorted - but it’s not the main battery leads or the ground.... Hopefully nothing serious and at least it happened parked at the house and not out on a long ride. Very frustrating with being only 6 months old and just over 1K miles...

Here is a pic, have since added the Ends Cuio small Tomahawk saddlebags:
592320
 
  • Like
Reactions: AvionicsScouter

·
Registered
Joined
·
472 Posts
Here's a thought. I can't speak for the Bobber but the Scout and Scout 60 have a wiring harness under the rear fender that is prone to getting cut with rocks. At one time, there was an issue with the cable coming loose and rubbing on the rear tire. Have a look at that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Update:

Still not fixed but some progress made. I removed the fuel tank, headlight bezel, and even the rear fender and looked at all the wiring - no indications of any fraying or shorts. There is no wiring I can see under the fender - just the two sets of wires under the side fender brackets for the rear turn signals and license lamp - which I disconnected also - problem persists. One by one and then all of them at the same time I disconnected the connectors for the headlight, turn signals front and back, instrument cluster - still the same issue, just the recurring clicking of the chassis 15A fuse/breaker setting and re-setting as soon as I turn the key to ON position. I even swapped out to a new brand new battery - same thing.

The final thing I did was remove the bolt which holds the negative battery cable and the set of ground wires grounded to the chassis. I then clamped that negative battery cable to the group of ground wires with a vise grip but DID NOT ground them to the bike's frame. Lo and behold, when I turn the key to ON, the headlight, turn signals, horn, instrument cluster all work, I can hear the fuel pump spool up and the chassis fuse/relay is silent. But then the instant that I ground the negative cable with the ground wires to the frame of the bike however, everything goes dark and again the chassis fuse/circuit breaker starts to click and reset at about 3 second intervals.

So based on the above, it seems that something is shorted to the bike's chassis - but I can't find it, even with the process of elimination of disconnecting all the various connections I can find.... I even disconnected the positive and negative cables from the starter solenoid next to the battery - the problem persists.

Unless anyone else can come up with any other diagnostic/testing ideas, I'll have to get it to the dealer later this week - a PITA given its 30+ miles each way and the downtime involved for them to - hopefully - figure it out and fix it.
 

·
Bronze member
Joined
·
1,919 Posts
Update:

Still not fixed but some progress made. I removed the fuel tank, headlight bezel, and even the rear fender and looked at all the wiring - no indications of any fraying or shorts. There is no wiring I can see under the fender - just the two sets of wires under the side fender brackets for the rear turn signals and license lamp - which I disconnected also - problem persists. One by one and then all of them at the same time I disconnected the connectors for the headlight, turn signals front and back, instrument cluster - still the same issue, just the recurring clicking of the chassis 15A fuse/breaker setting and re-setting as soon as I turn the key to ON position. I even swapped out to a new brand new battery - same thing.

The final thing I did was remove the bolt which holds the negative battery cable and the set of ground wires grounded to the chassis. I then clamped that negative battery cable to the group of ground wires with a vise grip but DID NOT ground them to the bike's frame. Lo and behold, when I turn the key to ON, the headlight, turn signals, horn, instrument cluster all work, I can hear the fuel pump spool up and the chassis fuse/relay is silent. But then the instant that I ground the negative cable with the ground wires to the frame of the bike however, everything goes dark and again the chassis fuse/circuit breaker starts to click and reset at about 3 second intervals.

So based on the above, it seems that something is shorted to the bike's chassis - but I can't find it, even with the process of elimination of disconnecting all the various connections I can find.... I even disconnected the positive and negative cables from the starter solenoid next to the battery - the problem persists.

Unless anyone else can come up with any other diagnostic/testing ideas, I'll have to get it to the dealer later this week - a PITA given its 30+ miles each way and the downtime involved for them to - hopefully - figure it out and fix it.
Try to check the your first modification........the LED headlight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Did that. Regardless of if the headlight is connected or not, if the negative and ground wires are grounded to the chassis, everything dies. I also installed that Scout Pathfinder Indian LED light at about 200 miles and I now have 1,316 miles on it. It's listed right on the Indian website under available accessories for the Scout and its marked as "top seller". The LED's plug is also the same as the conventional light and the newer LED light is the same one Indian uses on the FTR1200 and many people with Scouts and Bobbers have converted to this same Indian LED light without issue. I'm as sure as I can be it's not the light.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Next Update: Still not fixed but I drove up to Stu's Motorcycle in Broward County, FL (next county north of me here in Miami-Dade) which is the nearest Indian dealer now that the one I purchased from stopped being a motorcycle dealer.

Spoke at length to the senior service manager as well as a senior tech and explained in detail what's gong on and all efforts to diagnose on my own. It was refreshing that they listened carefully about all the steps and didn't just blow me off as a non-mechanic noob who is clueless. They have not seen or heard of this issue before and said all the things I've already checked are the exact same things they too would have first checked. They asked about if I checked with the starter solenoid disconnected - which I had done and still the issue. They too don't think it's the Pathfinder Indian LED headlight as they have installed the very same light on multiple Scouts and Bobbers and given the problem occurs even with the light (and LED turn signals) completely disconnected.

They are picking it up tomorrow with the shop's flatbed at no charge - will be covered on their warranty service claim with Indian - which saves me a big hassle of getting it there myself.

They said its possible the stator and/or voltage regulator have gone bad. I asked if the stator is bad why would it seemingly be shorting the 15A fuse/breaker even with the engine off - but apparently there is a current connection from it even with engine off. In any event, given the bike is just 6 months old and only +/- 1,300 miles it is almost certainly going to be covered on the warranty and that none of the modest mods done (light and LED turn signals) are going to impact that. So, based on this early experience with them, the very good response so far, I am quite happy with their service and support - which is an extension of Indian itself with their dealer screening and selection.

I'll update this thread further once there is a definitive diagnosis/solution to the issue in case someone else has this problem and it may help them.

Thanks to all who chimed in with ideas to help so far - much appreciated!

Peace. RC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AvionicsScouter

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
With everything connected what voltage reading are you getting with key turned to the start position?
With everything connected, but the negative battery and other ground wires NOT grounded to the chassis and with key set to the start/on position, voltage reads +/- 12.78 volts. It's steady and the headlamp and turn signal lamps are on, horn functions, and turn signals work as well as "flasher" function and the instrument cluster gauge is on and showing all regular functions and I can cycle between RPM, trip, odometer, etc..

With all exactly as above, but the only change is the battery negative cable and the other ground wires now actually grounded to the (left/driver side) chassis with the bolt, the voltage reads +/- 12.58 volts, BUT the 15A chassis fuse/circuit breaker is setting and resetting about at 3 second intervals, and when it seems to reset, the voltage is dropping to +/- 11.95-11.75 and then comes back up to +/- 12.58 volts and continues that fluctuation between each set/reset cycle. Instrument gauge is blank and the headlight and turn signals are also off during this cycle of the 15A chassis fuse seemingly setting and re-setting.

I'll be showing exactly the above to the senior dealership technician when he arrives tomorrow to pick up the bike...

I'm super intrigued as to exactly what is going on for this to be happening. We will all know soon enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sure sounds like a battery with a bad cell to me. As you said you'll know soon enough.
I had thought the same thing, but a couple of days ago bought a brand new AGM battery and put it in and the problem still persists. Fortunately, I can use the old battery for another unrelated application so that wasn't a complete waste of money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Hornet

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
So strange problem. It has to be something with the wiring.
That auto-reset fuse can also go bad.
I carry spare all fuses and auto-reset fuses. I have ordered and received all spare relays in January this year, to get ready for the season on time. I placed them somewhere within my reach, for easy retrieval, and I can not find them. Bummer.

Forgive me for the following, but your problem reminds me on what happened to me with a little Ford Escort SW long time ago. I installed a hitch on that car and the wiring. Didnt use that much. One winter I noticed automatic transmission wont shift to the 4th gear. That happened ONLY IN THE AFTERNOON / night?? Thats why shop was never able to duplicate the problem, I always took the car to the shop in the morning. To shorten the story, it took me so long to figure out it was a bad ground on the wiring I installed for the hitch. In the winter afternoon, I would drive with the lights on, and that triggered transmission 4th gear not to engage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I tried swapping out the auto-setting fuses and the problem persists - so it's not that the fuse is bad. That's a great suggestion though to carry a few spare fuses and relays - I have the room in my saddlebags.

So the dealership - Stu's Motorcycle in Broward County Florida - picked up the bike last Friday afternoon. The driver was one of techs I had spoken to at the shop the day before. I showed him exactly what was happening and how without being grounded to the chassis all the lights function properly and the instrument cluster, horn, etc work but if grounded and key in ON position it all turns off and the 15A chassis fuse/circuit breaker starts to reset, no start, no engine turnover, nothing.

They should get to it later this week - which is fine, the weather here in Miami is rainy and super hot and not planning to have ridden in the near term. Very happy with that dealership's responsiveness so far.

Will let everyone know what the diagnosis and fix ends up being.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top