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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I just got my PV3 from fuel Moto and flashed the new fuel map. I've seen so many people talk about how there's a big improvement over the factory map.

Here are my observations:
Pros:
Reduced cold stalls (still experienced it, but it's not as frequent).
Smoother riding, throttle is less jumpy. Not really a big impact, however.

Cons:
Idle is now kinda rough. I can actually feel engine knocking with the new mapping.
Cost nearly $400 for marginal improvement.

Conclusion (thus far):
I'm probably going back to the factory map for now. The idle knocking makes me uneasy and makes the bike less comfortable after warmup. I'll contact fuel Moto about it.

Edit: wrote "can't" instead of "can"
Edit2: I'll update again after I have time to talk to Fuel Moto.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well did you contact fm and ask them to send you another map?

That’s why tuning companies offer life time map support. Not every bike is the same and not every map is the same. So you have to work with your tuner. With a good map, you will not have any of those issues


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I wasn't aware! I'll contact them later this week and report back.
 

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Hello,
I bought my FTR in Feb with the latest Polaris ECU and had numerous issues (cold starts, stalls on idle, jerky low rpm) and so I bought a PV3 from Fuelmoto.

I have been working with Craig for tunes and every tune I have received has been better...but it has been a long journey. I received two new tunes from Craig last Friday and both have made huge improvements in cold start and low RPM driving (below 3k RPM).

There was a point when I was seriously questioning my FTR purchase...with the last tunes the little sense of dread when I went into the garage to start the FTR has disappeared. I can just go out and enjoy riding a super nice motorcycle.

It is too bad Polaris/Indian have not seemed to solve the problems with the FTR's ECU. Luckily we have company's like FuelMoto and people like Craig to help us out.

Good luck and hopefully soon you can enjoy your FTR without these little annoying issues.
 

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$0.002....Carrying out adequate research and actually reading what is written on retailers websites and the service they offer when rushing out and spending your hard earned money can potentially stop you looking foolish when things aren’t quite right.


“Free Fuel Maps, Double Warranty, and Unlimited Support!“

Did you not get sent two maps to try? The difference with mine was phenomenal straight out of the box, I got sent two maps to try and there was only a hair’s width difference between the two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I did not receive a second map over email or on the PV3. Would it be somewhere else?

Do you have specifics on what's better? I honestly just don't know what to expect from the fuel mapping and that's what I'm looking to understand.
 

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No no. It doesn’t work like that. Yes there may be some calibration going on (adaptation tables for some sensors maybe). But a tune should give results out of the box.

If it’s not good after you loaded it into the ecu, it won’t get much better.
Except it does, and Fuel Moto said the same thing. My bike ran like dogshit when I first put the tune in. Complete different bike after the break in period. I'll trust Jamie vs someone on a forum. Thanks.
 

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I’ve gone through 6 different tunes on mine. The difference between first tuning it and after you ride it for a while is negligible.


That theory comes from modern car transmissions that learn driving habits. Those take a while to lean after tuning.

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I never noticed a difference either after a while. The quirks it had after installing were still there a 1000 miles later. It never got better or worse over time.
 

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Except it does, and Fuel Moto said the same thing. My bike ran like dogshit when I first put the tune in. Complete different bike after the break in period. I'll trust Jamie vs someone on a forum. Thanks.
There are lots of ways to take input from other folks on the forum. Since you asked I 'll give you my 0.02ppm, and how I view it.

We belong to this forum, presumably, because we have a common interest in the FTR 1200. Posted comments will almost always generate a response, because that's what people do on a forum. A message generated by the smartest person in the world may not have much significance. Imagine if such a person stated "the sun will not come up tomorrow." Even though s/he may be the smartest person on the planet, the message is incorrect. Imagine if the greatest fool stated "the sun will come up tomorrow." The fact that a fool stated it does not render the message wrong or faulty.

So, take in the info, weigh and consider, cross check it against what you believe are trusted sources, consider your thoughts, and then decide how much of it is relevant to you. You may agree, disagree or have no real opinion. Regardless, the response you give can always be polite, even if you remain part of the "loyal opposition" on issues such as fuel mapping or tyres. There are very few instances when being impolite will benefit you.

Yes, others may be condescending or impolite when they offer their opinion. So what. Let their karma be as it will.
 

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Do you have specifics on what's better? I honestly just don't know what to expect from the fuel mapping and that's what I'm looking to understand.
Surprised nobody had directed you to the thread below? I only dipped my toe into the remote tuning pool recently. Breto followed shortly afterwards. Both our results including slightly better (for me) and significant (for Breto) fuel economy speak for themselves. The most recent pages will suffice from Post # 633 when I started with Map 1 detailing the differences experienced and later comparisons between the TWO maps I was sent to try. Both Breto and myself are 'laymen' neither of us profess to be tuning gurus we are just two of the many happy customers who wanted to share our experiences with fellow forum members. Make of it what you will and I am sure liaising with Craig from Fuel Moto you too will eventually be a happy chappie too.

 

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Without the he said/she said. This is what I know about fuel injection systems:


yes there are certain tables that are reset after a flash (not disputing that). But they don't take 500 miles to repopulate. The STFT is almost immediate, and is deleted every time you shut down the engine, and the LTFT, which averages out the contents of the STFT, takes longer, but not 500 miles. The LTFT "offloads" the STFT. Or makes the corrections on STFT table more or less permanent. Not really permanent, these values change too over time, but are retained in Keep Alive Memory, for the next start. The total correction is the sum of the value in the STFT and the LTFT (for that particular load request and RPM, it's a table of values, not just one number).

And the corrections stored in these tables are expected to be fairly minimal on a healthy engine, they typically compensate the injector's duty cycle for a wearing/dirty fuel pump, clogged air filter, intake leak...They basically trim the fueling back to 14.7 AFR in rpm/load ranges where the ECU knows it runs closed loop, and store the required delta in a table for situations where the engine runs in open loop.

If these values differ significant from the expected "normal" values something is wrong with your engine/intake/fueling. I wouldn't be surprised if that leads to an error code or a Check Engine Light in worst cases. Think about it, If every flash of the ECU requries 500 miles to break in, how do many/most buyers of aftermarket tunes see immediate positive results?

And yes, I'm not disputing Jamie or any tuner saying :"Here's your new tune, try it a for a few hundred miles and tell me what you think" It simply takes time for us riders to ride in all the various circumstances the tune should take care of. Prolonged high way riding, city traffic, cold starts, throttle response on curvy roads are all different experiences. I've had tunes in the past that were perfect in the canyons, but could use some help at cold engine temps for instance.

So yeah I stand my ground, if a freshly installed tune makes your bike run like dogshit, something's wrong. Either with your bike, the tune itself, or the combination between the two. 🤷‍♂️
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Without the he said/she said. This is what I know about fuel injection systems:


yes there are certain tables that are reset after a flash (not disputing that). But they don't take 500 miles to repopulate. The STFT is almost immediate, and is deleted every time you shut down the engine, and the LTFT, which averages out the contents of the STFT, takes longer, but not 500 miles. The LTFT "offloads" the STFT. Or makes the corrections on STFT table more or less permanent. Not really permanent, these values change too over time, but are retained in Keep Alive Memory, for the next start. The total correction is the sum of the value in the STFT and the LTFT (for that particular load request and RPM, it's a table of values, not just one number).

And the corrections stored in these tables are expected to be fairly minimal on a healthy engine, they typically compensate the injector's duty cycle for a wearing/dirty fuel pump, clogged air filter, intake leak...They basically trim the fueling back to 14.7 AFR in rpm/load ranges where the ECU knows it runs closed loop, and store the required delta in a table for situations where the engine runs in open loop.

If these values differ significant from the expected "normal" values something is wrong with your engine/intake/fueling. I wouldn't be surprised if that leads to an error code or a Check Engine Light in worst cases. Think about it, If every flash of the ECU requries 500 miles to break in, how do many/most buyers of aftermarket tunes see immediate positive results?

And yes, I'm not disputing Jamie or any tuner saying :"Here's your new tune, try it a for a few hundred miles and tell me what you think" It simply takes time for us riders to ride in all the various circumstances the tune should take care of. Prolonged high way riding, city traffic, cold starts, throttle response on curvy roads are all different experiences. I've had tunes in the past that were perfect in the canyons, but could use some help at cold engine temps for instance.

So yeah I stand my ground, if a freshly installed tune makes your bike run like dogshit, something's wrong. Either with your bike, the tune itself, or the combination between the two. 🤷‍♂️
Thanks man. I really appreciate the input. I flashed back to the OEM map for now. When I have the time to deal with fine tuning it, I will absolutely worth with Fuel Moto.

Ironically, after re-flashing the stock fuel map, the bike has not cold stalled a single time. I'm not comfortable with engine knocking, especially when caused by something aftermarket.
 
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