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Discussion Starter #1
Thanks for having us on the forum. .

I thought I would go over when and why you should address the fueling on your motorcycle.

A stock bike is bound by EPA emissions regulations which results in the fueling being lean under low rpm and light or steady cruising conditions..
The EPA targets this area because this is where the bike operates most of the time while in the city or holding a steady cruise on the highway.
They make the bike run at 14.7 air/fuel ratio (AFR) which is what we refer to as Stoich or Stoichiometric. Chemically speaking this AFR is neither lean nor rich. However, most 4 stroke motors like to run at richer AFR than this between 14 and 12.5 AFR. 14 would be on the lean end of the spectrum for fuel economy and 12.5 being on the rich end for full throttle performance. Many tuners will aim for right around 13 AFR for a good tune up. Each rider may want their bike to run differently to suit their riding style; some want fuel economy, some want performance, some want a mixture of both. A proper tune up can do that for you.
Here is link to a video that goes over AFR values and what they mean in 4 stroke motors:

The bike regulates the fueling using the stock narrowband O2 sensors which tell the ECU to add or pull fuel to maintain 14.7 AFR during the low rpm and light load cruising conditions. This is referred to as a closed loop system. When there is a heavy load on the motor or the motor reaches a certain rpm, the ECU drops out of closed loop and goes into an open loop fueling which is usually a richer AFR for better performance.

When Stage 1 performance modifications are added, you are improving the air flow through the motor. More parts of air through the motor mean a leaner AFR. This is when addressing the fueling is suggested. Obviously the bike still runs and operates even at the leaner AFR, but we are not reaching the full potential of the stage 1 performance modifications we just spent all that money on. That's why we richen up the fueling to get the most out of our performance parts. Now let's talk about the different fuel solutions available.

I'll start with the stage 1 download to not play favorites (EJK). The stage 1 download is a reflash for the ECU. It is usually still EPA compliant and street legal. What this download did was put your vehicle back to how it ran stock and compensated for the added stage 1 mods. The bike is still running at 14.7 which could still be improved but at least you know your bike will not be pinging or running way to lean. This is also great for the dealer because they can still offer you lots of improvement by richening up the tune up more. This is where they recommend dyno time and further downloads. (Harley pushes this as they can offer you Stage 1, then dyno time and SE Tuner, then full race tuner and more dyno time) The cost can really start to add up. In the end if your not looking for major power gains, the Stage 1 download works great.

Then there is aftermarket ECU reflashes. These can give you a full performance tune up right away, change timing, take off rev limit, etc. These are great and effective for performance gains. However, an ECU reflash immediately voids your warranty as the manufacturer has no way to control how your bike is operating.

Then there is piggy back fuel controllers like our EJK and the PC. Piggy back controllers do not reflash the ECU and the bike will return to stock if they are removed. These do not void the warranty. Google the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for more info. In order for a controller to void the warranty, the dealer would have to prove that the failure that is in question of being covered under warranty was directly related to the fuel controller. They cannot simply void your warranty because you have aftermarket parts on your bike.
Our EJK comes pre-programmed with recommended settings for stage 1 modifications. This means that we are improving the stock fueling as well as compensating for your intake and exhaust mods. These settings will give you a good tune up right out of the box. Gains from our EJK will be better than a stage 1 download and now you have the ability to adjust your fueling to your liking; the EJK has 6 modes of adjustment with 16 settings per mode (If you thought of each adjustment as a change in fuel map, the EJK comes with 96 different fuel maps). We also bypass the stock O2 sensors so we are now able to control the fueling across the entire RPM range.
We are different from the PC in a number of ways. We use load based tuning technology while the PC uses Alpha-N tuning (TPS vs RPM fuel map). Our EJK can sense changing loads on the motor and will adjust the fueling accordingly. Alpha-N does not change the fueling whether going uphill or downhill or on a flat road; it is a static fuel map.
You can read more about the difference at this link: Comparing the EJK Controller to Competitor EFI Controllers
For those of you that do not know, Dobeck Performance owner, Mark Dobeck, is the founder of DynoJet and inventor of the DJ dyno. Our head engineer is the one that helped with the original design of the PC. Dobeck Performance is their new company and we also have a new dyno called the Axis Dyno. Indian actually used our dyno to debut their new models. You might have seen it at Sturgis or Daytona this year. Our EJK also went onto the Indian Scout Hill Climber that IndianMotorcycles.net got to build.
Our tuners do not require dyno time, do not require a computer to download maps and are fully adjustable on the fly.

Let me know if anyone has any questions about our EJK, fuel tuning, or whatever. We are here to help!

We currently have the Indian Scout here for testing. We will be testing various exhausts to find optimal EJK settings for each exhaust. We will have dyno information as well as Stage 1 packages available that include your choice of exhaust and our EJK fuel controller.
Watch for these packages coming soon in our supporting vendor section.

Stay Tuned!

-TuningHQ
 

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Thank you for the informative posting! I first heard about the EJK on this forum and installed one on my 2014 Chief Classic a couple of weeks ago. The result is a much smoother running motorcycle and I would recommend the EJK to anyone! My bike is stock except for the removal of the plugs in the baffle tubes of the stock mufflers.I am guessing that your baseline fuel settings on the EJK are for modified intake & exhaust, so I backed them off to 2.5/2.0/2.0 and the bike is running well.
The instructions state that there is seldom any need to modify the base settings for where the EJK switches from cruise, to acceleration, to full throttle modes. I am curious as to how you arrive at these settings and what effect any changes to them will have on how the bike performs.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Pheonix Chief,
We are glad to hear you are liking the EJK.
The cruise fuel or green zone corresponds to steady throttle positions or lower rpms. We match the green zone up to the stock fueling that is regulated by the O2 sensors (closed loop fueling). The closed loop fueling drops off and the bike goes into an open loop map at a certain rpm or throttle position. We match this transition up to when the yellow fueling begins. The red fuel zone or full throttle fuel zone starts at a given throttle position or RPM/load on the motor. For example, we may turn the red zone on at 70% throttle position or when a certain rpm is reached. We also look at the air/fuel ratios the bike is running at. If we see a bike's AFR change consistently at a certain rpm, this would be a good point to switch into another fuel zone and address the drastic change in AFR.

Hopefully this answers your questions.
-TuningHQ
 

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Pheonix Chief,
We are glad to hear you are liking the EJK.
The cruise fuel or green zone corresponds to steady throttle positions or lower rpms. We match the green zone up to the stock fueling that is regulated by the O2 sensors (closed loop fueling). The closed loop fueling drops off and the bike goes into an open loop map at a certain rpm or throttle position. We match this transition up to when the yellow fueling begins. The red fuel zone or full throttle fuel zone starts at a given throttle position or RPM/load on the motor. For example, we may turn the red zone on at 70% throttle position or when a certain rpm is reached. We also look at the air/fuel ratios the bike is running at. If we see a bike's AFR change consistently at a certain rpm, this would be a good point to switch into another fuel zone and address the drastic change in AFR.

Hopefully this answers your questions.
-TuningHQ
Yes it does answer my question very well. Now I understand why the transition to the green zone is set at the lowest possible setting (0.5) so that the EJK will take over fueling right off idle. I could not make adjustments to the yellow & red switchover points without knowing the actual AFR. So, I should leave them at your default settings as noted in the instructions and ride it! Some things should be left to the pro's.
Thanks again for the informative posting.
 
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i am running the AFR+ wide band dobeck tuner on my 13 Hammer + very pleased. i love the AFR gauge + would like to see that for the indian scout, either way if-when i get a scout dobeck's tuner will be a first addition with a 2-1 exhaust + better intake when available, although shocks may be the first upgrade, an easy bolt on
 

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Thanks for having us on the forum. .

I thought I would go over when and why you should address the fueling on your motorcycle.

A stock bike is bound by EPA emissions regulations which results in the fueling being lean under low rpm and light or steady cruising conditions..
The EPA targets this area because this is where the bike operates most of the time while in the city or holding a steady cruise on the highway.
They make the bike run at 14.7 air/fuel ratio (AFR) which is what we refer to as Stoich or Stoichiometric. Chemically speaking this AFR is neither lean nor rich. However, most 4 stroke motors like to run at richer AFR than this between 14 and 12.5 AFR. 14 would be on the lean end of the spectrum for fuel economy and 12.5 being on the rich end for full throttle performance. Many tuners will aim for right around 13 AFR for a good tune up. Each rider may want their bike to run differently to suit their riding style; some want fuel economy, some want performance, some want a mixture of both. A proper tune up can do that for you.
Here is link to a video that goes over AFR values and what they mean in 4 stroke motors:

The bike regulates the fueling using the stock narrowband O2 sensors which tell the ECU to add or pull fuel to maintain 14.7 AFR during the low rpm and light load cruising conditions. This is referred to as a closed loop system. When there is a heavy load on the motor or the motor reaches a certain rpm, the ECU drops out of closed loop and goes into an open loop fueling which is usually a richer AFR for better performance.

When Stage 1 performance modifications are added, you are improving the air flow through the motor. More parts of air through the motor mean a leaner AFR. This is when addressing the fueling is suggested. Obviously the bike still runs and operates even at the leaner AFR, but we are not reaching the full potential of the stage 1 performance modifications we just spent all that money on. That's why we richen up the fueling to get the most out of our performance parts. Now let's talk about the different fuel solutions available.

I'll start with the stage 1 download to not play favorites (EJK). The stage 1 download is a reflash for the ECU. It is usually still EPA compliant and street legal. What this download did was put your vehicle back to how it ran stock and compensated for the added stage 1 mods. The bike is still running at 14.7 which could still be improved but at least you know your bike will not be pinging or running way to lean. This is also great for the dealer because they can still offer you lots of improvement by richening up the tune up more. This is where they recommend dyno time and further downloads. (Harley pushes this as they can offer you Stage 1, then dyno time and SE Tuner, then full race tuner and more dyno time) The cost can really start to add up. In the end if your not looking for major power gains, the Stage 1 download works great.

Then there is aftermarket ECU reflashes. These can give you a full performance tune up right away, change timing, take off rev limit, etc. These are great and effective for performance gains. However, an ECU reflash immediately voids your warranty as the manufacturer has no way to control how your bike is operating.

Then there is piggy back fuel controllers like our EJK and the PC. Piggy back controllers do not reflash the ECU and the bike will return to stock if they are removed. These do not void the warranty. Google the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act for more info. In order for a controller to void the warranty, the dealer would have to prove that the failure that is in question of being covered under warranty was directly related to the fuel controller. They cannot simply void your warranty because you have aftermarket parts on your bike.
Our EJK comes pre-programmed with recommended settings for stage 1 modifications. This means that we are improving the stock fueling as well as compensating for your intake and exhaust mods. These settings will give you a good tune up right out of the box. Gains from our EJK will be better than a stage 1 download and now you have the ability to adjust your fueling to your liking; the EJK has 6 modes of adjustment with 16 settings per mode (If you thought of each adjustment as a change in fuel map, the EJK comes with 96 different fuel maps). We also bypass the stock O2 sensors so we are now able to control the fueling across the entire RPM range.
We are different from the PC in a number of ways. We use load based tuning technology while the PC uses Alpha-N tuning (TPS vs RPM fuel map). Our EJK can sense changing loads on the motor and will adjust the fueling accordingly. Alpha-N does not change the fueling whether going uphill or downhill or on a flat road; it is a static fuel map.
You can read more about the difference at this link: Comparing the EJK Controller to Competitor EFI Controllers
For those of you that do not know, Dobeck Performance owner, Mark Dobeck, is the founder of DynoJet and inventor of the DJ dyno. Our head engineer is the one that helped with the original design of the PC. Dobeck Performance is their new company and we also have a new dyno called the Axis Dyno. Indian actually used our dyno to debut their new models. You might have seen it at Sturgis or Daytona this year. Our EJK also went onto the Indian Scout Hill Climber that IndianMotorcycles.net got to build.
Our tuners do not require dyno time, do not require a computer to download maps and are fully adjustable on the fly.

Let me know if anyone has any questions about our EJK, fuel tuning, or whatever. We are here to help!

We currently have the Indian Scout here for testing. We will be testing various exhausts to find optimal EJK settings for each exhaust. We will have dyno information as well as Stage 1 packages available that include your choice of exhaust and our EJK fuel controller.
Watch for these packages coming soon in our supporting vendor section.

Stay Tuned!

-TuningHQ
How about an installation video for the EJK?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Here is the installation video for the EJK fuel controller on the Indian Scout.

Let me know if there is any questions.
-TuningHQ
 

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very good vid, seeing how its done makes you comfortable + confident while DIY. generally oxygen sensors are removed + pipes are plugged. i have read that letting sensors in without functioning can ruin them for future use
 

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Discussion Starter #11
We have bung plugs available for the stock O2 sensor hole locations if you would like to remove the sensors and plug them up. We do not dictate one way or the other to remove the sensors or leave them in. We leave this choice up to you.

-TuningHQ
 

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My Scout had the stage 1 calibration flashed into my ECU on initial purchase with my stage 1 exhaust. Should I dial back my EJK settings a bit to compensate? Running my Supertrapps with (12) discs and open end caps. Currently (3) green/(4.5) yellow/(3) red
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@troop,
You could dial back the settings .5 for a good starting point and see how the bike is working for you.
How is your fuel economy? If you want to get some fuel economy back, you can do this by reducing the green adjustment mode down.
If you go to the lowest setting in the green, this will be 0% fuel change anytime you are in the green fuel zone.

You could play a bit with the yellow and red to see what gives you the best performance. The settings it comes preprogrammed with should not be too far off with the Indian reflash added.

Let us know what settings you end up with.

-TuningHQ
 

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Well I have run the Thunder max on my Harleys before and Work Great , and My partner targets fuel mileage , , I disagree with him , If my bike runs much cooler and smoother and stronger , I don't worry about mileage , if it gets more than Mini Van , I am happy , so many are more concerned about mileage , I am concerned about what is best for my Motor , 12.5 - 13.5 is good ARF target area . I am no Expert . Some One needs needs to make a Oil Temperature Dip Stick for Indian like they have Harleys
 

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i totally agree with your fueling. i have my Hammer set at just over 13 cruising in 6 as indicated on the AFR gauge included with the Dobeck AFR+ setup. a cooler running bike will last much longer + is easier on the oil as high heat as well as a shared gearbox shears- brakes down oil, especially dino oil with a wide spread that requires lots of fragile Viscosity Improvers, Indian's 15-60 fits that description
 

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Would you offer any support, or do you have any pre-made legal type letters if indian were to try to void a warranty simply for a fuel tuner install?

The dealer in SLC is attempting to say he would just void the whole thing, which I know isn't legal, and that would be an easy fight, I'm talking if I have an unrelated crank failure or something down the road, would your shop do anything to back up a rider In a warranty claim?
 

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dealers will + do use scare tactics, but when push comes to shove do you have the $$$ to fight! manufacturers + dealers can be a PIA but dealers you are dealing with are the key, some are flexible + others not, unfortunate but true. the moss-magnuson warranty act is there to protect consumers but again it may take a lawyer $$$ to get it right!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Deke and Redhotter,

I'd imagine it would all depend on the situation. We do not have any pre-made legal letters to offer you. We would have no problem speaking with the dealer to explain what our controllers do and troubleshoot the situation to determine that it was not the controller causing the issues.

Before hiring a lawyer, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act recommends contacting the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Better Business Bureau (BBB). These organizations will act as the mediator between these disputes. You can file a claim/complaint with both organizations and they will act as the judge.

I personally battled with a dealer on a failed UTV motor. It was completely stock, no fuel controller, no nothing. They said it hydrolocked; I knew it didn't because I was on a dry paved road with the sun out when it happened; not a drop of water in sight. I had ridden it on a long ride the day before and never had it in water. They also could not prove to me one way or another that water had ever gotten in the motor. After battling back and forth all summer and getting no where, I filed complaints with both FTC and BBB and we had a resolution within 3 days.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does work and does protect both the dealer and the consumer. I would recommend everyone taking some time and reading up on the act.

Here are a couple links to read up on the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act:
Understanding the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act by MLMLaw.com
FTC Validates Rights to Install Aftermarket Parts – SEMA News
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia


-TuningHQ
 

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Discussion Starter #20
@Frankieg,

We don't have an installation video specifically for the cruiser/bagger model Indians, but it will be very similar to the scout install.

Quick install recap:
1. Remove seat and lift tank to gain access to the fuel injectors. Route controller along the frame so wires are not pinched/stretched and wires are away from any hot or moving parts.
2. Disconnect mating harness from injectors and plug fuel controller harness in line of injection harness and injector. Do this for both injectors.
3. Connect the black ground wire on the controller to a motor/chassis ground or main grounding lug.
4. Locate O2 sensors in exhaust and follow O2 harness up to the first connection. Disconnect O2 sensor connection and plug supplied O2 bypasses into the mating harness. (O2 sensors can be left in the exhaust or 12mm O2 bung caps can be purchased to plug holes once sensors are removed)
5 Reinstall tank and seat and you are ready to ride.

Let us know if you have any questions about the install.
Feel free to give us a call, we are happy to help!

-TuningHQ
 
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